published Friday, December 30th, 2011

Harriet Tubman residents relocating

Aileen Young stands outside of her home in the Chattanooga Housing Authority's Harriet Tubman complex. Young is upset about having to move and hearing about plans to close the Tubman site as the community has become family to her.
Aileen Young stands outside of her home in the Chattanooga Housing Authority's Harriet Tubman complex. Young is upset about having to move and hearing about plans to close the Tubman site as the community has become family to her.
Photo by Dan Henry.


Harriet Tubman residents who have questions about the relocation process may call the complex’s management office at 752-4860.

The daughter of a retired Air Force officer has lived in a public housing site for four years and doesn’t want to leave.

“They showed me hospitality. I showed them hospitality, and we created a bond,” Aileen Young said. “Children come here, bake cookies, color and eat homemade soup. This is our family.”

Young, her son and father are among about 250 families who received a letter this month informing them they were going to have to leave the Harriet Tubman housing complex.

The letter states the Chattanooga Housing Authority, which owns Harriet Tubman, has received approval from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to vacate the site.

“CHA is now ready to begin the process of relocating residents and making plans to sell Tubman in the future,” according to the Dec. 13 signed by CHA Executive Director Elizabeth McCright.

CHA will start helping to relocate residents after Monday.

“We anticipate issuing residents a 90-day notice some time after the first of the year,” McCright wrote in an email response to the Times Free Press’ request for an interview. “However, CHA will work with each family to ensure that everyone is accommodated and properly housed.”

Funding will be provided to help residents with moving expenses, according to the letter. Relocation amounts are determined by the U.S. Department of Transportation based on specific guidelines.

The relocation process may take from several months up to one year, housing officials said.

Tubman buildings will remain vacant. CHA says it doesn’t have a buyer for the property, nor does it have the money to demolish or repair the dilapidated units.

Harriet Tubman has existed in East Chattanooga since 1963, but some buildings on the 36-acre site were built as early as 1953. It once had 500 units until 60 were demolished in 2005.

Avondale homeowner James Moreland, who lives two miles away from the site, said he doesn’t think crime will increase as a result of Harriet Tubman being vacated but he does hope the housing authority will secure the development with a high fence when the residents leave.

“I believe there are outstanding people in that complex, but unfortunately, that complex has some real negatives that are not good for raising families,” Moreland said. “That is one of the things we’re struggling with in our community. I want to see children raised in an environment where they have opportunity and they are encouraged to get their education, not to grow up, have a baby and get a project. They’ve got to see positive role models around them.”

With 440 units, Tubman is the second-largest CHA housing site, behind the 497-unit College Hill Courts. However, all units in Tubman haven’t been occupied in years.

CHA reported in 2010 that 92 units at Tubman were vacant because they were in disrepair and 44 of those units had been vacant for at least a year.

It would cost about $20 million just to bring Harriet Tubman up to standard, according to a 2007 assessment conducted by Bradfield, Richards, Rhodes & Associates Architects Inc. In March, CHA released a statement saying it would take $33 million to put the site in good condition.

Units have gutters that hang off because wood on the roof is rotting and can’t hold them up. The rotting wood causes leaks that eventually make the apartments uninhabitable, officials said.

Merely vacating the site and trying to find a buyer wasn’t the housing authority’s first choice for the site.

In November 2010, housing officials and the Hamilton County applied to HUD for Tubman and Glass Farms Historic District, located near Tubman, to be a Choice Neighborhood. Under that designation, the housing complex would have gained a $250,000, two-year grant to design a better Harriet Tubman and Glass Farms neighborhood. More money to develop the communities was expected to follow, but Chattanooga didn’t get the grant.

This year, Harriet Tubman is one of two low-income areas named as sites for a potential Purpose Built Community. Purpose Built Community, an Atlanta-based nonprofit co-founded by billionaire Warren Buffet to improve impoverished neighborhoods, has visited Chattanooga at least twice and plans to return in January to discuss the possibility of revitalizing Harriet Tubman or the Westside. Purpose Built officials have said they look for a city’s ability to raise funds and resident participation before deciding to work in a community.

But even if Tubman is chosen as a Purpose Built site, residents still must leave to prepare for revitalization.

Some Harriet Tubman residents have already moved or are in the process of moving to other public housing, said Anita Pickett, president of Tubman’s Resident Association. About 250 families waiting on housing vouchers remain in the complex, she said.

“We’re applying now for new vouchers for the families at Harriet Tubman,” McCright said. “We don’t have an exact number of vouchers yet, but it’s probably going to be in the 250 to 300 voucher number.”

The vouchers will pay all or at least a portion of a resident’s rent. The resident can choose to live anywhere, in an apartment or home, where the property owner will accept the voucher as payment.

Pickett has taken photos of residents, CHA staff, Harriet Tubman visitors, even the community postal carrier, in an effort to document the relocation process.

“There’s nothing we can do about it [having to move],” she said. “We can’t stop it. The only thing we can do is adjust in a positive way. Everything has its season. This property has been here since 1950. Now it’s our time to go.”

Some residents have started looking forward to the move, Pickett said.

“People are asking, ‘When are we going to get our voucher?’” she said. “They’re eager to upgrade.”

Young said she’s not eager to leave and wants to remain in East Chattanooga after she gets her voucher.

“My brother says I’ve lived in the projects so long that I don’t want anything better,” she said. “In my opinion, this is perfect. I’m not trying to leave my environment. I’m trying to be a part of my community and make it work.”

about Yolanda Putman...

Yolanda Putman has been a reporter at the Times Free Press for 11 years. She covers housing and previously covered education and crime. Yolanda is a Chattanooga native who has a master’s degree in communication from the University of Tennessee and a bachelor’s degree in journalism from Alabama State University. She previously worked at the Lima (Ohio) News. She enjoys running, reading and writing and is the mother of one son, Tyreese. She has also ...

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lookinfour said...

"The daughter of a retired Air Force officer has lived in a public housing site for four years and doesn’t want to leave."

Of course she doesn't want to leave. Look at that smile on her face. Free or near free ride for four years. Why stop now. The 'Birth till Death Entitlement Program'. Makes me sick. Some stepping stone from having difficulties to getting out onto ones own. This is a way of life and it's disgusting. I'm sick of paying for able bodied people to live.

"Funding will be provided to help residents with moving expenses"

Where was my moving expense money when I had to move 2 years ago?

December 30, 2011 at 1:56 a.m.
cannonball said...

Maybe Pastor Tim could buy this property. It seem like its "right down his ally."

December 30, 2011 at 7:09 a.m.
rolando said...

Anyone notice the boarded up door and windows in the background?

Typical for project housing...all the fixtures -- lighting, bathroom, kitchen, etc were undoubtedly torn out long ago and sold along with the copper piping and wiring in the walls/floors.

This is what we pay for...

December 30, 2011 at 7:48 a.m.
ex_army65 said...

Noone should have public housing for 4 years unless they are in school working toward a degree. I thought the concept was to help you until you got back on your feet. Shouldn't take you 4 years to get back on your feet. This bothers me because right now, I have almost 10 open positions that need to be filled but I get people who come in who havent worked in over a year begging for a job but then find out that its easier to just sit at home and collect instead of bending over and working for something.

Rules need to be changed and you should have a set tiime that you are given for public assistance. If at the end of this time you cannot show that you are enrolled in school or actively seeking a trade, then out you should go.

December 30, 2011 at 8:08 a.m.
Momus said...

The vouchers will pay all or at least a portion of a resident’s rent. The resident can choose to live anywhere, in an apartment or home, where the property owner will accept the voucher as payment.

Over a year ago my financial advisor presented me with the opportunity to invest in purchasing foreclosed homes and renting them out to low income families now, and selling once the market turns. It seemed risky at the time, but now I'm glad I did. The beauty is that these houses are in nice middle class neighborhoods. I plan on taking a loss on a couple, but the vouchers will make up for upkeep on the others. It's a win, win. Just think one of these displaced families could be moving into that vacant home next door.

Happy New Years!

December 30, 2011 at 8:15 a.m.
twharr said...

"I have almost 10 open positions that need to be filled but I get people who come in who havent worked in over a year begging for a job but then find out that its easier to just sit at home and collect instead of bending over and working for something."

You're an idiot...let me get this have 10 people begging for a job yet you won't hire them because they've been unemployed for a year?!! To top it off you think they figured out being employed is where it's at after they leave your mom-and-pop "begging" for a job?! Dude, you're a joke. By the way, what the hell is "Noone?" Get educated buster.

December 30, 2011 at 8:20 a.m.
aex7 said...

so sad that she has to move out of her home, which she doesn't pay for. she will get to move into a nice home in a middle income neighborhood. Im sure the property owners will love to see their property value drop even more.

this is what obama was talking about when he said we need to redistribute the wealth. After building the new projects in Hixson, look how bad it is after only a few years.

December 30, 2011 at 9:26 a.m.

For everybody complaining about a rundown housing project, I suggest driving around a few older neighborhoods and seeing if you can find a house or two that is just as bad. They may be somewhat dispersed, but they're around elsewhere too, perhaps in greater quantity.

And those are just the ones obvious on the outside. Who knows what is inside an otherwise unremarkable home?

December 30, 2011 at 9:36 a.m.
holdout said...

Actually tw I believe he said that he has ten jobs that people won't take because it involve actually working for money rather than having it given to them unearned. Maybe it would help if you got a grownup to read the post to you.

December 30, 2011 at 9:45 a.m.
WEBMAN said...

@Rolando I worked in this particular housing complex. It is kind of hard, almost impossible to pull copper wire out of cylinder block walls and copper pipe out of concrete slab floors.The water pipes are galavanized iron and what little wire that was ran along the walls in conduit, is not worth some crackheads time to steal.

December 30, 2011 at 9:49 a.m.
twharr said...

No imbecile aka HOLDOUT read his quote again. Allow me to dumb it down for you..."I have almost 10 open positions that need to be filled but I get people who come in who haven’t worked in over a year begging for a job but then find out that its easier to just sit at home and collect instead of bending over and working for something." Where do you see WON'T you idiot?! You must live in the outskirts of Chatt.

December 30, 2011 at 9:55 a.m.
patriot1 said...

This is exactly what LBJ meant when he said "I'll have those people voting democrat for the next 200 years".....I cleaned it up, he didn't say "people" he used the n....word. What a shame to use and destroy an entire faction of the population solely for political gain and power.

December 30, 2011 at 9:58 a.m.
twharr said...

My question to the Army guy is did he hire these people? If they were so lazy why did they attempt to get a job?

December 30, 2011 at 10:02 a.m.
XGSBoss said...

WEBMAN, it's no use. Rolando knows full well, better than you as a matter of fact, that the resident that lives there, black of course, broke those windows and doors. He knows there is no hope for the black race, savages that they are. He knows, Lord how he knows, that the white man has worked for decades to make up for slavery (even though they should thank us for getting them out of god-forsaken Africa) and all they do is keep taking and crying that it isn't enough. Rolando knows there has never been an honest person in public housing (unless they were white, god forbid), he knows public housing has never helped someone in need get back on their feet after a divorce or death that put them under water. He knows it's all just a waste of the white man's money.

December 30, 2011 at 10:06 a.m.
ashleykc said...

Oh Thank God what a miracle, maybe the violence will be cut down now, and give some of these people a wake up call for the real world.

December 30, 2011 at 10:13 a.m.
jdchatt said...

it amazes me that some people can be so heartless. I know the system isn't working to get people moved into their own living situation, but think about the kids that are being forced from their homes. Is it their fault? Absolutely not! Sure some people abuse the system, but some people need it. It's funny how conservatives jump on the issue about people abusing the system and cry about their tax dollars being used to fund these programs, but claim to be Christians. Remember the golden rule and it was Jesus that said if they take the coat off your back, give them your shirt too! If you're tired of people abusing the system and using your "tax" dollars for welfare, then DO something about it. Help be a positive influence in the lives of the kids in these neighborhoods and help them succeed.

December 30, 2011 at 10:20 a.m.

patriot1: You are aware that quote is not actually proven, and may well be fabricated.

What LBJ is known to have said though, was:

"I think we have just delivered the South to the Republican Party for a long time to come."

This is reported in quite a few sources, and was said to a named aide, Bill Moyers.

Your quote has less provenance to it.

December 30, 2011 at 10:27 a.m.
Momus said...

It's funny how conservatives jump on the issue about people abusing the system and cry about their tax dollars being used to fund these programs, but claim to be Christians.

That's funny.

Ask any of these so called "Christians" when was the last time they did anything Christ-like and watch how many excuses you get.

December 30, 2011 at 10:35 a.m.
memphisexile said...

LOL! haha @XGSBoss.

December 30, 2011 at 10:41 a.m.

ex_army65: Your claims about the jobs you are offering aside (which could be declined because you aren't offering sufficient pay, hours, or good working conditions, we don't know without an objective investigation), you should probably check out the statutes for receiving Welfare.

They do include time limits, and requirements for education or seeking a job, unless a person is severely disabled or taking care of somebody who is. Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act

December 30, 2011 at 10:51 a.m.
skyboxer said...

What a WONDERFUL Christmas present for Chattanooga! Now if we can only get rid of College Hill Courts -- if that happens watch for a dramatic downturn in the downtown area's crime stats.

December 30, 2011 at 10:57 a.m.
ex_army65 said...

Actually Tw, you're the idiot because you can't comprehend a simple sentence. Holdout seemed to get what I was saying, like everyone else on here besides you. I meant exactly what holdout said. I have positions open but the sad part is that a lot of the people who really want jobs already have them, especially entry level positions that a person has to do some physical work for not very much pay. Nobody wants to do that anymore, they want to come in as a manager now.

And yeah, I do give these people a chance to work because they come in crying about how BAD they need a job. And I sit and make sure I tell them during the interview EXACTLY what the job involves. After one or two paychecks, they decide its not for them and go back to doing whatever they were before.

And yeah, you got me on missing "noone", guess that pretty much defines my education, huh? I also misspelt "time" but you missed that one.

December 30, 2011 at 10:58 a.m.
rolando said...

happy said: seeing if you can find a house or two that is just as bad

yeah, but they are in the ones and twos, not hundreds all in one place, happy.

A run-down house or two is nothing at all compared to an entire run-down complex with hundreds of junk cars, garbage, boarded up windows, graffiti, etc making real eyesore.

December 30, 2011 at 11 a.m.
rolando said...

How about the rest of it, webman? Not everything can be redhot, nailed down, or cast in concrete...if there is a way, the scum will find it.

Before you and others here get your panties in a wad, the "scum" refers specifically to those who stripped the place without without proper authority. Get it? That's probably why the place is boarded up...

December 30, 2011 at 11:04 a.m.

Rolando: I guess you stopped reading there, or you would have seen my next sentence:

"They may be somewhat dispersed, but they're around elsewhere too, perhaps in greater quantity."

You're letting your perception of concentration mislead you.

December 30, 2011 at 11:07 a.m.
rolando said...

XGSBoss -- As a mind reader, you suck hind teat.

With your too typical libtard intolerance for anything which upsets you, you set a new low-water mark of ignorance, faulty comprehension, and deliberate misunderstanding and distortion along with a new high-water mark in perceived, puffed-up self-importance with that one.

December 30, 2011 at 11:18 a.m.
jdchatt said...

@skyboxer, if you want a drop in the crime rate then why don't you help do something about it? Do you think throwing people out of their homes will help the crime rate? People grow up their whole lives learning this type of lifestyle. Can expect anything else? I think we should focus on correcting that instead of abandoning them. I don't think it will be a downturn in crime it will just push it into other neighborhood that may have been safer at one time. Maybe your neighborhood!

December 30, 2011 at 11:19 a.m.
Lynnme1205 said...

It is comical to read some of these posts from people who have no idea about the circumstances of the people who find that they must live in public housing. I lived in Harriet Tubman in the early 80s for one year, due to my financial situation and was a single parent at that time. In 1985, I bought my first house with my husband. In 2008, I built my dream home, alone. It doesn't matter where you start, it's about how you finish. I've had a job, though many did not pay much, since I was 14. Oh, and I also was a teen mom. Having people who care for you, who are not judging you, and who show love to you even though they don't fully understand your circumstance means a lot. I am the "proverbial toad standing on top of the post." I know I didn't get here by myself. I was motherless at 9 due to my mom passing no Christmas Day, but having people of all races see what I could be helped me to move along. Can anything good come out of Harriet Tubman...I did! Don't judge what you will never understand. By the way, that child I had as a teen now has a very good job in administration and so do I. I've worked at my job for 25 years and he's been on his for 14. I'm just saying!

December 30, 2011 at 11:26 a.m.
rolando said...

Oh, I read your entire post, happy, and even understood what you said.

Again, a rundown house or two scattered around from here to there with cars on blocks, over-grown yards, gutters down, junk piled up, are nothing compared to what is done to and around low-income housing projects with hundreds of apartments, all crammed in one place. [What does "perception of concentration" mean to you, anyway?]

Good luck to those accepting the rent vouchers. I hope their funds for upkeep are in better shape than their financial sense. They will, in effect, own long-term rent-controlled housing...and we see the result of that nationwide. They will be lucky to regain their investment...unless they drop the upkeep altogether, of they usually do.

December 30, 2011 at 11:30 a.m.
jdchatt said...

Lynnme1205 said: "Can anything good come out of Harriet Tubman...I did! Don't judge what you will never understand."

Thank you for posting that. Some people go through life and get all of the breaks and never have to go through situations that others do, but they are the first to cast the stone.

December 30, 2011 at 11:35 a.m.

Doesn't seem so, since you replied to only a piece of it, without addressing what I said in an effective fashion.

Which just goes to prove I was correct in my assessment. You're mislead by a concentration of something to think it's larger or more meaningful. You think it's nothing when they're spread out, but I think you're just fooled by the perception of it.

Try looking up some visual puzzles, there's bound to be a few that demonstrate the issue.

December 30, 2011 at 11:36 a.m.
rolando said...

Do you think throwing people out of their homes will help the crime rate?

First of all, they are not being thrown out of their "homes", jdchatt. They have no vested interest in the place. Besides, they are all being given better-kept quarters at no cost, not even moving expenses.

As to cutting the crime rate, dispersing the various families and thereby eliminating any gang-mindset and conduct will assuredly reduce crime. Hard to terrorize someone/someplace when there are only one or two of them...can't surround them, for starters.

December 30, 2011 at 11:37 a.m.
rolando said...

You don't know a lot about the gang mentality do you, happy? Try reading The Lord of The Flies.

You disperse it, you end it. That's how crowd control works. People don't like being violent in onesies-twosies.

December 30, 2011 at 11:40 a.m.
beezybooboo said...

@Lynnme- Unfortunately you are an exception to the rule. Likewise, I am myself. I am a single mother. I have had some help along the way but I do not come from a "rich" family. I've worked hard doing jobs that weren't the funnest. I put myself through college and now I have an awesome job and I am able to provide a decent life to my now seven year old child. I have never been on assistance. I was always told I made too much money. Really? I made $2.13 an hour as a waitress. At times I think life would have been much easier if I had stayed home and collected a check. I was taught you must work hard to be able to live the life you want. I try very hard to instill that in my child.

We have to stop rewarding laziness! Black or white, asian, hispanic...doesn't matter. At some point people need to stop making excuses and take responsibility for their life!

December 30, 2011 at 11:42 a.m.
lookinfour said... what is the amount of time someone should be given to get on their feet? How many months should one be given to get a job, save money, and move out an support themselves? You have to put a number to it. You can't keep it open ended or we will have the mess we have. So please give us all a number of months. 12, 18, 24, 36 months? What is it?

And please don't use the words 'christian', 'jesus', or 'God' in your response.

December 30, 2011 at 11:42 a.m.
rolando said...

...since you replied to only a piece of it...

LOL. Yeah, right, happy. If you say so.

FYI, I addressed your entire post, not each separate word/sentence/part. You just don't realize/comprehend it. You simply prefer to do an alprova and pick sentences ineffective technique, although you both post that way and respond in that way. Try addressing the entire comment.

You fail to appreciate the difference between the effect upon a community by a concentrated populace and a widely dispersed one. The effect is cumulative...1+1+1=5, in effect.

December 30, 2011 at 11:48 a.m.
jdchatt said...

@lookinfour: I don't think there should be a time limit. I think we should start teaching them how valuable their life should be, and how important it is to stand on your own two feet and support yourself and your family. Maybe they should be required to attend programs to teach job readiness classes, money management, ect to help teach a different lifestyle. People are gonna fail, over and over again. Does that mean we give up on people? You grow up your whole life learning to live in a certain way, can we expect them to do differently without learning? Why not use the words "christian, jesus, or God?" What else matters? Maybe this is the reason we have the situation we do? Ever think of that?

December 30, 2011 at 11:49 a.m.
twharr said...

@ Army, why didn't you say that in your initial posting? HOLDOUT understands dumb statements hence the reason he understood your post. I guess the "Noone" did throw me off a bit.

Anyhow, maybe you need to re-evaluate the description of the positions you're hiring for. Is it possible the workload out ways the pay? I'd rather sit on my ass than put myself in harms way or work like a slave on a plantation.

I'll make a couple of suggestions for you. Increase the pay, add benefits, and don't treat your employees as if you're a slave master. Until then outsource the positions to Mexicans.

December 30, 2011 at 11:50 a.m.
rolando said...

beezybooboo, you summarized it nicely with your last para.

Congrats on making your own way...your life story is legion for those who refuse to become just another stereotype.

December 30, 2011 at 11:52 a.m.
Lynnme1205 said...

Beezybooboo, I am an exception only because people invested their time, talents and resource in me. You may find it hard to believe, but when I wasn't doing so well, it wasn't because I didn't want to do well. It was because I didn't know how to do well. Education really is power. You say an excuse, I say show them how it's done. Assuming they are lazy is too easy because it takes the partnership between you and them away and places it all on them. We are in this world together. Each one teach one. We assume if you are a certain age, you should have a certain level of knowledge and skill sets, but what if no one ever taught you? How are you supposed to know or possess something that's totally foreign to you? What if your parents were not taught and so they could not teach you? I can honestly tell you, I've been in a lot of bad situations not because I was lazy, but because I just didn't know the expectation. Yes, there are some who may want to lie around and get the free ride, but I'm a Y thinker. I believe if you made the effort to teach them, only then can you make the assumption they are lazy.

December 30, 2011 at 11:53 a.m.
rolando said...

...the workload out ways the pay... [sic]

twharr, you are a hoot.

First you criticize Army over a simple typo...then you do even worse by depending upon a stupid spell-checker [or some such -- I presume it wasn't ignorance] to do your work for you.

By the way, Army did say that in his initial post. You were simply looking for something for which to attack him. [You should also avoid ending a sentence with a preposition -- you have picked up bad habits by texting too much.]

Would you care for another critique of your writing/posting techniques?

December 30, 2011 at 12:01 p.m.
beezybooboo said...

@ Rolando- Thank you! I must admit I've very proud of my accomplishments thus far! I purchased my first home this year! It was an amazing feeling!

@Lynnme- I totally agree! But people must have open minds. You cannot teach someone who is not willing to learn. Just as you cannot save an addict who doesn't want help. My mother is a hard worker. My father is a drug addict. I could have very easily followed in his foot steps, but at some point in my life I decided that was not the life I wanted for myself. There is a huge difference between uneducated and laziness. Regardless people must have initiative to take control of their life!

December 30, 2011 at 12:01 p.m.
rolando said...

Interrupting here, Lynnme, what makes you think the "show them how" hasn't already been done?

Our youth have to first be in class and attentive in order to learn.

Our schools are not primarily driven to teach our children...their main objective is to keep getting those federal dollars [determined by the number of students present]. The feds don't care if they learn or not...preferably not because that guarantees them a subservient, dependent class of voters.

December 30, 2011 at 12:11 p.m.
XGSBoss said...

Wow, you're really a freakin nut huh Rolando! Please, tell me how more guns solves all societal issues and concentration/worker training camps (corporate controlled, not govt controlled!) for the poor and unemployed will get us back on track. Also enlighten us about how only true Americans (whom are much darker and didn't speak english) should have the privilege to live here.

December 30, 2011 at 12:25 p.m.
twharr said...

@ Rolando... Mom, give me 5 more minutes. I won't be late for school I promise.

Anyhow, you can take what Army said in two different ways. I got his point after his second post. I'm not always right, but I do admit when I'm wrong...stay thirsty my friends.

December 30, 2011 at 12:27 p.m.
Lynnme1205 said...

@Roland, you must understand the difference between "standard," "one size fits all" education and teaching at a person's level of understanding. There are some things that come easily to some while others struggle to understand them even though it is presented the same way to all. Many of the things I've learned applicable to life were not learned in a classroom, but on a more personable level. I'm not knocking the basics of education, but there are so many life lessons that are not and cannot be addressed in a school room. Also, learning is one thing and but teaching me how to apply what was learned is a separate thing. Certain information may be innate to some people, but I'm sure you know our educational system has several gaps in it. It was only this year that I read they are including finances in general education. Understanding the dynamics of finances helps on so many levels and we are just now introducing it to our children. When I allude to it not being done, it's because it wasn't done for me and mine.

December 30, 2011 at 12:34 p.m.

Rolando: Really? It seems to me you were the one who picked a single sentence apart, and missed the whole of what I said, by referring only to a piece of it, but not the other part where I had already covered the subject. I wouldn't mind if you replied to just a section, but when you ignore the very relevant sentence that explains the thought by just quoting a fragment of the prior sentence, it is a poor choice on your part. What opinions you have of my conduct elsewhere, or somebody else's, well, I will not address the latter, and for the former, I ask that you be specific as to your grievances, not just make vague attacks and accusations.

My complaint is very direct to what you did here. You missed the meaning of my words just to grab onto a tiny piece. If others have also done something similar, that would not excuse your actions.

So it's not that there's only one run-down house, but that there's hundreds, which is as I said, part of the perception of concentration giving you a false idea of the situation.

Try looking up some visual puzzles, it'll show what I'm talking about.

Now If you want to discuss social groupings, and what concentration of poverty might do, or how dispersion of it might help, well, that would be worthwhile. Let's see, the downside of concentration is that it may be making the problem worse by bringing all the elements together. On the upside of concentrating, we can recognize the problems and see it, but by dispersion, we might find ourselves being better able to ignore it, or unable to treat it, since the problems can't be taken all at once, but go on spreading outwards.

It's a tough choice. I wish somebody knew which was truly better. I've seen both work out, and both fail.

Kinda amusing that you're suggesting a redistribution of the poor though.

December 30, 2011 at 12:37 p.m.
skyboxer said...

Apparently there's no money to tear'em down ... I'll pay for the diesel if someone wants to bring in the dozers...

December 30, 2011 at 2:50 p.m.
Lr103 said...

aex7 said... so sad that she has to move out of her home, which she doesn't pay for.

people like this poster must live in a very isolated world. According to the article, her father is a retired Air Force Officer, the articles states. Which means they must have some type of income coming in. Depending upon his rank when he retired he'd get about 3/4 of that in a retirement check, which means they are not living in public housing for free. They are paying rent. dah!

All individuals in living in government subsidized housing pay rent, which the amount is based on income. The only ones who do not pay rent are the ones who may have lost their jobs or their unemployment benefits have run out. The rule is, or was, no one would be made homeless just because they lost their income and couldn't afford to pay rent. However, there is a time limit on that too. They can only live rent free for a certain amount of time.

Come out of your comfort zone and do some research like I and others have done.

December 30, 2011 at 3:47 p.m.
mom_of_2 said...

im a single parent of 2 and i have never lived in a public housing development. i decided that i would go work in corporate america and not depend on the government for anything. i dont recieve any type of assistance glad i dont i would rather work for what me and my kids need. there are circumstances that we cant control which are understandable but if you are crying or upset b.c you have to leave something is wrong with you. im just saying. not trying to be mean or act as if i have everything b/c i dont. im just hate when someone doesnt want better for their family.

December 30, 2011 at 4:11 p.m.
Justreading said...

Frankly I don't want this trash in my neighborhood. Where are they gonna pay for them to live when they tear it down?

December 30, 2011 at 4:26 p.m.
jdchatt said...

@Justreading: Crawl back up in the hills then, and pick on your banjo!

December 30, 2011 at 6 p.m.
rolando said...

beezybooboo -- You have reason to be proud. You will find, as the years go by and your situation improves even more, that that "amazing feeling' just gets better and better.

Good for you too, mom-of-2. You and beezybooboo are far from alone in your personal responsibility. You are among those who don't cry and moan all the time about how bad things but go forward and earn your own way.

December 30, 2011 at 6:14 p.m.
ScoopAway said...

Mom_of_2..... That's the best comment I've ever seen on this TFP website!!

December 30, 2011 at 6:15 p.m.
Justreading said...

Jdchatt, are you telling me you are wiling or wanting these deadbeats and loafers to move in beside you and drag your property values down? I know I don't want them, on top of that look at their area of town, certainly something to be proud of huh? Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they have to live like a pig. Be honest, real honest, and answer me truthfully. At least I have the nads to admit I don't want any of these dirtbags in my area.

December 30, 2011 at 6:26 p.m.
jdchatt said...

I know people that live there and work with kids that live there and know their stories. Do you? Shouldn't be so eager to judge when you don't know anything about anyone that lives there. Who cares about your property value. Is that worth more then a human life? If you think so I truly feel sorry for you.

December 30, 2011 at 6:31 p.m.
rolando said...

Do try to stay at least partially on-topic, happy. That topic being the dispersal of section 8 housing occupants into the surrounding environs, not how you interpret what others say. And we are not talking about poverty here but of the effect of moving an entire complex of people into new neighborhoods and the effect that might have.

Same for you, XYZboy, only in spades. [Google it.]

twarr said ,,,you can take what Army said in two different ways.

No, twarr you might take it two ways but I and a few others here didn't. I took it the way Army meant it to be taken. Your failure to comprehend what he meant is your problem -- obviously -- since few of us had that failing. You could indeed use a bit more study in comprehension techniques.

December 30, 2011 at 6:32 p.m.
Justreading said...

Jdchatt, you assume I don't know anyone living there, assuming makes you look stupid, try to stop it, K? As for my property values, yep, I sure do value it more than them,especially since I pay a portion of their freaking rent. I go to work each and every day and most of them sit on their butt and watch Precious or reruns of Montel Williams. While it is my unjust burden to help house and feed this waste of flesh I do not feel like I should be forced to live with them because some spineless liberal like you thinks everyone should have some of the working man's money. You love em so much, move them in your house or neighborhood.

December 30, 2011 at 6:39 p.m.
holdout said...

And TW I was being pretty snarkey there. I apologize for that.

December 30, 2011 at 6:45 p.m.
FreedomJournal said...



In the name of God, Master of the Universe, Ruler of the earth

Greetings Brethren,

Peace be unto you. Beloved the Book of Revelation has a profound impact on all that read it and come to understand the basic meaning found in John’s revelation. As we approach the last two Chapters we see the climax of the symbolic predictions noted previously. Meanwhile the last two Chapters present figurative language that is used throughout the Bible. However we note that these figurative statements and predictions pertain to conditions that are to exist after the world comes to an end.

This Chapter therefore will predict events still in the future with symbols starting at the time of the great Reformation. Essential toward an understanding of this Chapter (20) is the fact that Satan was to be bound away from the nations but not from any individual.

Due to the union of Church and State many nations had become influenced by the ruling regime and felt they could not exist without their influence. But the Reformation gave the Bible back to the people in their own languages; they also realized that they did not have to depend on a central ruling regime. But as this great drama continues to unfold what is crucial toward our discussion is what will happen as this great drama comes to an end.

What is the future of this world? Many come in disbelief even mocking those that lean on the Lord. They seem to find great comic relief with their jokes and foolish statements about those that live in faith. Meanwhile we continue to pray for all that liveth that are lost and those that are found. Because as we read the Bible that we believe for certain is the True Word of God there will be a time when all men will be held accountable. Held accountable by the Supreme Power of the Living God that the saints have testified about all the days they liveth on this side.

Our primary scripture for this discussion is taken from Revelation 20: 11-13. Verses 11-15 are the last five verses in this Chapter and have the theme “Great White Throne Judgment.” What does this mean? Some believe in the judgment and some do not. Therefore do some believe that God is real while many others deny His existence? This is a strange world indeed where we see Satan not bound up from individuals. In his wickedness he has actually influenced even the most educated that man created all things. These people evidently believe that the power of the elements just happen to be and of course there is a scientific explanation for all things which is false as green grass producing green milk among the Jersey Milk Cows.

Cont. Part II

December 30, 2011 at 6:57 p.m.
FreedomJournal said...

Part II

Revelation 20: 11 “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and he was found no place for them.” There will be justice that the earth has never seen in time. Those that have disturbed the earth and its people and all things that liveth will be counted. “Great White Throne,” indicates purity and justice. We also would be remiss if we did not note that there is a belief coming from the Afro-Centric community that the notation of White being pure and Black the opposite is a confession of racial superiority and Black inferiority. However, we come to note that the Bible in no way contributes to any racist thoughts conjured up by anyone Black or White.

The next chapter will tell us of the new heaven and the new earth. Thus there is an agreement noted here in those that will be rendered peace and those that will be rendered some other measure of judgment.

Follow us over to II Peter 3 for a word on this verse that will help with our on-going inspiration and understanding. Many Bible scholars note the beginning of II Peter 3 and the first 7 verses to reflect on “Mockery In the Last Days.” These are the days for many that still come denying the ever presence of the Lord. Our primary verse here is verse 7.

II Peter 3: 7 “But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.” The Heavens and earth noted here is the same as noted in the 5th verse. Heavens and earth were created by the word of God.

After the people of the earth were destroyed by the flood except Noah and his family the heavens and earth were left still in existence and once again the earth was inhabited by people. Meanwhile the earth will be permitted to remain until the Day of Judgment because man is to live on it that long. But those that do not believe that God created the Heavens and the earth see not these things. Meanwhile there is peace in the waiting for the righteous.

Cont. Part 10: Part II There Will Come A Time When All That Liveth Will Be Held Accountable (Revelation 20: 12-13)

Peace and Paradise,

Brother Carl, this day December 30 in the year of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus 2011. My days your days and the days of all that liveth and all that will expire are not long.

December 30, 2011 at 6:58 p.m.
jdchatt said...

@justreading, are you assuming that I haven't? I hope you haven't ever received gov't assistance that my tax dollars payed for! No gov't grant for school or anything. That would be horrible!

December 30, 2011 at 7:01 p.m.

Sorry Rolando, but in any discussion, if the parties are not understanding each other, then there's no effective discussion. As such, it is an essential topic that will crop up, and needs to be addressed when a failure such as yours occurs.

However, if you wished to discuss the topic of housing, you could have constructively replied rather than chide me for doing something you just did yourself. And not just to me, but to another person in the same post. Which kinda points to a bit of hypocrisy.

Really, your hypocrisy aside, I'm not going to stop you from talking about concentration versus dispersion in terms of handling the poor, if you have some thoughts on a better way to do things, tell us.

Me? I figure both are already present, and both seem equally unresolved (or in some cases resolved), so I don't think that's a significant part of the issue.

mom_of_2: Here's the thing about your judgement of others, who you don't're thinking it is entirely negative and horrible in such a housing development. But for many people, maybe it's not. Maybe it's been a good community for them, and not the hellhole you perceive it to be. Why shouldn't they be upset? And even if it was, the emotional attachments people can have may vary. I know many elderly people in this area who lived in one-room shacks that were swallowed up by the TVA reservoirs, but hated to lose them. I know a person right now, who has a house that his mother owned, which he doesn't want to sell. He could get a fair amount of money for it. It's not doing him any good. But he doesn't want to sell it.

Justreading: I know as many wealthy people who are slovenly as I do poor. And some of the seemingly cleanest people are less than decent as a person.

December 30, 2011 at 7:01 p.m.
rolando said...

Lynnme --- I understand well what you mean and absolutely agree [for what that's worth]. Problem is, we cannot [or should not] teach at the lowest common level in any classroom. Yes, students differ in their learning abilities...some are good in one subject but poor in another...I was one of those.

You might not like what I say next, but it is true...been there, got the T-shirt. California public schools were not that great in the mid 50s; but at least they taught things in HS like home economics [including checkbook balancing], social studies [about the world, not the US -- that was civics, another class they taught], math up to solid geometry and trigonometry, mechanical drawing [drafting], English all 4 years, two years of a foreign language, etc. They were challenging.

That was in the college prep pathway; they also had 3 years of English, basic math [including finances and some algebra], the same social studies and civics clases [they were mandatory for all], and a number of shop classes were available to those wanting to learn a trade in wood and metalworking, plumbing, auto repair [although most of the guys already knew that. All manner of animal husbandry and ranching/farming was taught to those interested. The girls were considered as future homemakers in those days -- not an easy job at all -- because they usually, but not always. were...some combined the two. [How things have changed!]

Very little, if any time was wasted -- yes wasted -- on trivialities like alternate lifestyles and the wonders of sodomy, how to use a condom [we all already knew that one], social diversity [whatever that means], the equivalent of basket weaving and other useless studies in HS, women's and minorities studies [whatever they are and however they differ from men's studies].

We also had separate classes for the "slow learners" to teach them at their own pace without slowing down the rest of the class. And we had the chronic trouble-makers who not only refused to learn anything but didn't want anyone else to learn either [the latter are still with us].

But then the administration didn't outnumber the teachers...who weren't limited in their abilities by union leadership. They advanced by proving their ability to teach by the only standard that matters...the students ability to excel in their own right.

We have lost so much over the decades. Our children cannot do simple math, they can hardly dress themselves [figuratively], but they can sure make babies, early and often. [Pregnant girls were not allowed to attend day classes in those days. Bad influence, you see.]

No, I don't long for those old wasn't a bed of roses at all.

Enough. soapbox=

December 30, 2011 at 7:16 p.m.
rolando said...

I am not the one with the problem, happy. You are one failing to comprehend. I understand your postings all too well.

You even go so far as to criticize mom_of_2 for daring to describe project dwelling on the basis that she knows not of what she speaks. All without knowing her past circumstances, which sounds like project life. Take a hint from your own hypocritical posts and consider that she may [and probably does] know well of what she speaks. Do you? And in what capacity?

December 30, 2011 at 7:25 p.m.

Rolando: Gee, weren't you just saying earlier that you wanted to stay on topic, rather than discussing what somebody thought of somebody else?

Your hypocrisy is showing again.

But no, I don't think mom_of_2 knows everybody that has lived in every housing project, but her words rather clearly did indicate a sweeping judgement of all of them. So even if she does know some, painting them all that way is another matter. And when someone says that they haven't lived in a housing project, it does kinda point to not knowing what it is like to live there. But there are people who have lived happy lives in one, much like other people enjoyed a happy life in a tiny shack, or even in a fetid swamp.

Besides, you're criticizing me for criticizing somebody who just criticized others. Will the cycle never end? Do you want to get back on topic or not?

December 30, 2011 at 7:36 p.m.
ki4kna said...

I'm not going to comment on specific situations, and admit I haven't read all the comments, however; as to the "stepping stone to a better situation" issue, if you happen to be the only person caring for an elderly family member, you can't work. I know everyone's situation is different, but there are certain scenarios where sadly people don't have another option. I wish it were easy. I wish everyone could be in an ideal situation, but it's not possible. Nearly everyone has had help at one time or another, if not from the government possibly a friend or family member. I just wish that people would realize they don't know all the details about a situation before they speak as if they do. Use common sense, and have some compassion. You never know when your situation may change, and the people you criticize now, may be the ones to help you later.

December 30, 2011 at 7:51 p.m.
patriot1 said...

happywithnew...Are you aware the liberal Bill Moyers was press secretary for LBJ? I'm sure he never heard a disparging word in that white house. Try reading Ronald Kessler's "Inside the White House"

December 30, 2011 at 7:54 p.m.
Justreading said...

Yeah Happy, cause Ooltewah neighborhoods are just a trashy as 4th street right? And how bout the fact that most ghettos have their on PD? Housing PD? They are all just fine upstanding citizens aren't they? All just down on their luck is all, wake up people.

December 30, 2011 at 7:55 p.m.

ki4kna: Or it might be a spouse who is forced to help their ailing wife or husband. Or a parent with a disabled child.

patriot1: One would think LBJ would make such a comment to somebody who worked for him. Who else? I'm not sure if anybody else heard it, but at least he's around to testify that he heard it said. But Ronald Kessler's book? It's not a serious historical work, and does not even identify who.

Justreading: Some of the individuals might be just as trashy. I know I've seen a luxury car whose driver threw out their drink. Who knows what their yards would be like if somebody didn't come by to clean it up? Or just as bad a criminal, or do you think the police never find themselves in the high-rent districts? Sometimes it might just be an availability of resources that's keeping any given person from turning into a cannibal.

December 30, 2011 at 8:13 p.m.
Justreading said...

How much more resources do they need? They have cheap to free rent, Outreach programs, Affirmative Action, free food and free healthcare. That whole program was intended to help needy people, not support generations of lazy bums. Programs like this is breaking this country, it needs to be reworked or eliminated, I vote for the latter. Our greatest generation made this country what it is and now they scrape buy on reduced benefits from Social Security while this trash is living it up. I work across from some "free" housing, you should see the cookouts everyone is having on the 1st and 15th every month, the numerous $50,000 cars and get this, I seen one of them having high speed internet hooked up today. If he/she can afford this stuff they can pay their own way.

December 30, 2011 at 8:22 p.m.
rolando said...

Gee, weren't you just saying earlier that you wanted to stay on topic, rather than discussing what somebody thought of somebody else?

That wasn't directed to you, happy. You are still off-topic. Care to discuss the issue you opened instead of trying to insult people?

December 30, 2011 at 8:33 p.m.
jdchatt said...

@justreading, how can we expect people to change when that is all they have been taught their whole life unless we doing something to teach them different? Passing that kind of judgment only makes you look like an idiot.

December 30, 2011 at 8:40 p.m.

Justreading, Maybe the resources they're getting just aren't the right ones. I'm reminded of the story about how all the winter coats went to the starving in the tropics. But ok, you say it's breaking this country, what's the current spending on such programs, and what proportion are they of the total budget? Why would elimination produce better results than reform? By the way, did you see my link earlier to the reform a decade ago? Did it not work for some reason?

Now if you want to complain about some individuals abusing the system, worry about them, but there's just as much, if not more, abuse in the corporate boardrooms. See the reports on the waste in Iraq and Afghanistan and ask where the money went. I don't think it ended up in the hands of the poor. As for internet access, getting that is no great expense, and it is a path to a great deal of opportunity. I can't see why you'd resent that as a matter of principle, it's a cheap and effective tool. You want to complain that the person isn't using it properly fair enough, but unless you're monitoring their system, you don't know.

Rolando: You used my name, I think you did direct it at me, I'd quote your words, but you can read them yourself. Still, if you want to change the discussion, or cover something you believe to be more on topic, why don't you do so? I'm not writing your posts. You are, and you're continuing to say things that focus on me in the same way that you complained about me doing.

December 30, 2011 at 8:40 p.m.
rolando said...

This is not about those who have an ailing parent or spouse who needs constant care. It is about the able-bodied people who work the system and live on and demand the other guys dime, generation after generation with no effort to get off the dole. [They would do well in Great Britain.] No, it is about hundreds of people leaving one project and trying to move into another or at least stay around their old neighbors -- in other words, turn their new freebie quarters into their old, ramshackle freebie quarters. Wow! Nice fresh buildings to trash!

Those who [actually and literally] cannot work because they are caring for another on a 24/7 basis are a completely different matter. Don't confuse the two. These people typically aren't the ones trashing the place...just the opposite, in most cases.

December 30, 2011 at 8:47 p.m.
rolando said...

Still on the same-o, same-o, happy. Good luck with that.

Your tu quoque reply re: boardrooms and war zones is indeed a red herring.

December 30, 2011 at 8:54 p.m.
OhReally said...

There are some good people that live in the projects. However, the overwhelming majority are lazy,and do nothing to better themselves. Trust me I know this for a fact. Good Riddance to a long time nuisance to our city. Its hard to fathom why these people get so much money to do nothing. I think we all know the answer, but this type of system needs to be fixed. With our current politicians in place its not going to happen.

December 30, 2011 at 8:56 p.m.

Ohreally: I'm afraid I don't know you well enough to trust you on that. But I agree, our current politicians don't want to fix anything.

Fixing things would mean they'd not have anything to use in their campaigns.

Rolando: You can worry about the nickels, I'll worry about the dollars and quarters, or at least hope that the problem is recognized as being quite pervasive. But confusing the different groups is what is going on, with all of the descriptions like the one just above.

December 30, 2011 at 9:05 p.m.
rolando said...

Yeah, right, happy. whatever...

December 30, 2011 at 9:14 p.m.
jdchatt said...

@ohreally, these housing developments have been in place for how long and with how many different politicians have we gone through?

December 30, 2011 at 9:20 p.m.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

December 30, 2011 at 9:31 p.m.
Legend said...

mom_of_2 said... im a single parent of 2 and i have never lived in a public housing development. i decided that i would go work in corporate america and not depend on the government for anything. i dont recieve any type of assistance glad i dont i would rather work for what me and my kids need.

Most people are receiving some form of government assistance without ever realizing it. Even if that assistance comes in the form of providing tax breaks, financial grants, and other incentives to make companies hire you. The government basically had to conjole, plead, beg and even force the private sector to do more hiring of people they would have otherwise not given glance. Most of us don't realize that when that rug is pulled from under the poor how their own livlihood will be affected. The truth is, there's actually not enough jobs in America to go around to everyone. Ever notice? When a particular field becomes overflooded with too many workers their salary actually decreases? The supply is so great that it diminishes the demand or need for workers? In America, engineers, computer programmers once made big money. Then the private sector saw where they could get the same job done in India paying the people 5 bucks or a little more an hour for the same work and with no benefits. Those people who once made 80 thousand and above became unemployed.

Years ago, there was a shortage of nurses in America. The hospitals were begging for nurses. Most everyone started going to college to get a degree in nursing. By time they finished their college, the hospitals had more nurses than they needed. Those individuals couldn't find a job and their only training was to become a nurse. They had to start all over again. In America, there's a system many of us aren't aware of. That system is actually designed to keep a certain number of people out of the workforce in order that others will have a job. It's like 100 people applying for a job at a fast food restaurant when only three positions are open, or paying farmers not to plant, grow and harvest certain crop in order that farmers can make a livable wage. Otherwise, they'd give up farming altogether and Americans would starve. Again, don't knock the poor. And the republicans start this argument of trying to turn everyone against the poor while they're robbing us blind everytime they've gained traction in the federal government. While they're primary goal is preserving the money to hand over to the richest of the rich while the rest of us are preparing to gang up on the poor and rip them apart. Don't fall for it. They started the same thing in the '70s and '80s. They actually had people following fellow Americans around in the grocery stores to document what they placed in their shopping carts and following them all teh way to the checkout line to see if they were using foodstamps.

December 30, 2011 at 11:24 p.m.
fiberopguy said...

Yay Chatt residences get to have their very own Sanford and son special next door with a bit of drugs and free loading... I vote send the kids to homes and the adults to shelters. Tough love should be the swift kick in the ass they need to me heartless if you like or even a jerk , but can you honestly say your hard working tax dollars have done justice housing about 95% drug heads and gangsta's?? Your paying their tab for rent and all utilities including those ribs they cook out and transportation ( even the ones living there with lexus and caddies). I dont drive a lexus , get food stamps , have my rent paid for, utilities furnished, I simply live life paycheck to pay check raising my kids just fine with HARD WORK!!! It is insane how the Gov. allows this to go on for so long with no actions taken. They say it was the white man that built the projects and drove the black men to help build them , but do they ever think why they live in em for over a year?? Russel Simmons at its best. They chose that life , they should reap what they sow. I know when I have a hard time its ramen noodles and hot dogs. They have a hard time its beer and steak. Its BS . Why is it fair for them to get the glory for doing nothing? It is not right at all.They think everyone should feel sorry for them just because they CHOOSE to live in projects. I dont feel one bit of sorrow for any of them except the elderly . Its called get off drugs, quit being a baby daddy check getter and get a JOB. We all question why the #s continue to grow or come to a stand still in unemployment when the answers lay in the Gov. housing!! They are nothing but housed bums. Board it up and shut it down. They are infested with bugs , hookers , dope dealers , gang bangers, and killers. SICK SICK

December 30, 2011 at 11:38 p.m.

95% drug heads and gangsta's?? Are you saying 95% of that group is getting public housing, or that 95% of those who get public housing are part of that group?

Not that it matters, you just made up the number to sound impressive. Why don't you get some specific information about what's happening there instead of your rhetorical declarations? Find the specific individuals who are causing these problems. Perhaps if you did background checks at the Lexus dealer you might be able to find them? It's easy to declare that there's a bunch of people who are behaving in some reprehensible fashion, but that doesn't mean they exist. If they do though, take them out individually and deal with them, while still supporting those who truly need it.

Or is that too much to ask?

Legend: And then they stopped training nurses, so now we have a shortage of them! Or is it the hospitals trying to employ fewer nurses (sometimes if we're lucky replacing them with less trained substitutes, but sometimes not eve that!).

Oh well, at least we're not running out of Lawyers.

December 30, 2011 at 11:49 p.m.
skinemaxfan said...

Now demolish East Lake Courts and the rest of the rats nests we are hemorrhaging tax dollars in support of. ELC, the other crime Mecca and vestige of the Cabrini-Green era of disastrous concentration of poverty/crime/depredation. The fact that people have lived under government support for as long as many of these people have is a crime against both the tax-payers and the residents. When I drive by this place I've seen enough people sitting on porches drinking 40's to staff a small factory.... in support of that effort, half the police force is camped out in cruisers on adjacent parking lots waiting for the next crime to take place. Chattanooga is a city waiting to happen but being dragged down by it's past and the welfare leaches it inherited from terrible HUD and federal policies attempting to sweep the dirt into small piles so that the floor looked a bit cleaner in case the boss walked into the room. Brief and modest charitable support for those in need is better for those in need as well as the average citizen who wakes up and works a job for the roof over his families' head and food on their table. This culture of dependance is one of many "holes in the bucket" for our city and country.

December 31, 2011 at 12:24 a.m.
OhReally said...
<p>@JDchatt....Your right its been through numereous eras in our politcal history. Do you know why? Probably not, so Ill help you out. When these kind of social programs were created they were not as large as they have become today. Simply put once it started no politician in his/her right mind would take it away for fear of not getting the votes. Its time someone take a stand and put a stop to this waste of mine and your money. There is no reason for someone to get almost 800 dollars for rent when they have been in this program for an extended amount of time. I do agree that some people do need help, but not for a lifetime. Hard work makes people better citizens in the long run. Taking pride in what one does creates a sense pride in ones community, and makes the community stronger. Taking all the time and never giving back does nothing but drain resources that could be put to a better use than purchasing alcohol, and big screen tv's. People have become lazy all across this country because the govt says "Ill take care of you, just dont forget to vote for me". All parties are wrong for creating that atmosphere. Teach people how to make your life better, dont just throw money at the situation expecting to get votes.

December 31, 2011 at 1:06 p.m.
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