published Thursday, April 12th, 2012

George Zimmerman

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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EaTn said...

The reason this case made big national news is because the local law enforcement didn't act quickly to do their job. As a result the case has already been tried by the public and media. The best we can hope for in this case is that state legislators will not be so quick to enact laws that encourage vigilantism. As for Zimmerman, he will have to keep looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life in or out of prison. And the gated community in question will probably have a new sign: "private property of the Martin family"

April 12, 2012 at 6:51 a.m.
Reardon said...

Good cartoon, Clay.

April 12, 2012 at 7:21 a.m.
dude_abides said...

tu_ (yawn)sez... "Only you would congratulate himself for predicting the obvious."

Could you please show me where you told us he would be charged with Murder 2? Maybe you had a 'de ja tu' moment when you heard the news. lol I see you're on a first name basis with Zimmerman, now. He has become your boy... boy George. It will be fun to see you predict, with your obviously vast law experience, everything that happens in this process. Hey, right or wrong, you're never in doubt are you?

April 12, 2012 at 7:24 a.m.
dude_abides said...

"I did order my .... FREE THE Z ... T shirt." -tu_

That reminds me... Manson was up for parole, wasn't he? Bet you have one of those shirts, too. You are sooo counter culture! You're a chic chick, ain't ya? Do you collect murderabilia?

April 12, 2012 at 7:31 a.m.
chet123 said...

FOX TV HAVE MADE GEORGE ZIMMERMANN THE VICTIMS......HA HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 8:09 a.m.
timbo said...

OPEN SEASON ON WHITEY....This case has caused more racial animosity than any in history. Yea, blacks are mad, they always are complaining about something, but what you liberals don't get is that fair people, on the fence types, you know white people, are getting upset too.

I know you libs and blacks don't notice but yea, there are white people in this country too. If you think that the way Al Sharpton, the black panthers and some of these black idiots in congress acted didn't do a lot of damage to race relations for a lot of us your crazy.

The "giddy" prosecutor just loved being in front of the cameras to appease black people and her liberal friends. She was unprofessional and gave in to the pressure. I hope they throw her out of office.

As far as these threats from the black panthers about a race war, we will just cancel deer season and take care of that in a week or two. By the way, I wonder if black panthers can count. They are 13% of the population and whites are over 50%. A race war for blacks would be like them bringing a knife to a gun fight. The whole concept is absolute stupidity.

So celebrate while you can. If there was ever, ever, reasonable doubt it is in this case. He will be acquitted and blacks will riot and throw a fit. Then we will hear the same old litany about how discriminated against they are, blah, blah, blah,......Same song, second verse.

So, you black youths and would be thugs have the governments permission to do whatever you want. Find a white person and attack them because you will be a hero. Maybe a dead hero, but a hero.

April 12, 2012 at 8:24 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Chet123 is dumber than a sled-load of guano.

April 12, 2012 at 8:30 a.m.
ibshame said...

"timbo said... OPEN SEASON ON WHITEY....This case has caused more racial animosity than any in history."

Yeah Right. I'll bet you said the same thing about Rodney King, OJ Simpson and the election of Barack Obama as President. I'll bet you even wear a hoodie every now and then but of course the difference between the type of hoodie you wear is the fact your face is hidden under a pointed hoodie.

April 12, 2012 at 8:37 a.m.
chet123 said...

WELL I SEE SANTA CLAUS(JACK DENNIS) IS MAKING HIS ROUNDS......

April 12, 2012 at 8:58 a.m.
MTJohn said...

timbo said...If there was ever, ever, reasonable doubt it is in this case.

The appropriate forum for the determination is in the courts. And, the party with the responsibility for determining reasonable doubt is the jury.

This blog is NOT the correct forum. Neither you nor I are authorized to make that determination and we have yet to see and hear the evidence.

And, as a footnote, this case hasn't "caused" any racial animosity. It has just revealed the reality that racial animosity is a defining attribute of our society. That animosity is reflected in posts like yours every bit as much as it is reflected in the radical responses by a few of our black citizens.

April 12, 2012 at 8:58 a.m.
chet123 said...

HO HO HO!

April 12, 2012 at 8:59 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Only reason this guy had charges brought is that "great" legal minds hope to avoid riots that would have surely come had charges not been filed. Sorry Zim, you're the scapegoat this time. Don't worry Flo-Rida, there will still be riots when Zim is acquitted based on Florida law.

April 12, 2012 at 8:59 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ibshame...good at throwing out bombs. Typical southpaw hypocrite.

April 12, 2012 at 9 a.m.
chet123 said...

TIMBO....DID YOU SAY THERE ARE WHITE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY TOO?????...HEY, BUDDY, WHAT HAVE THIS TRIAL GOT TO DO WITH WHITE PEOPLE???

YOU TELL ME!....

April 12, 2012 at 9:02 a.m.
ibshame said...

"Jack_Dennis said... ibshame...good at throwing out bombs. Typical southpaw hypocrite."

I call'em like I see'em. You want to talk hypocrite go look in the mirror. No one has declared "WAR ON WHITEY." What happened yesterday was what should have happened the night Zimmerman killed an UNARMED kid. It remains to be seen if this case will ever get to trial because of Florida's insane law.

April 12, 2012 at 9:12 a.m.
timbo said...

Ibshame....you name is appropriate. YOU should be ashamed. Defending black racism by accusing someone who doesn't agree with you is pretty sorry.

Your reference to the KKK just shows you don't have a clue what is really going on here. This is racial appeasement and Obama stirring up his base.

MTJOHN.... No, a trial was unwarranted. The local authorities determined that this was self-defense. They make decisions every day on whether or not to prosecute. This case should have never been interfered with by this out of control prosecutor.

It is only to appease a constantly complaining group of people who can't seem to take responsibility for anything they bring on themselves. We have spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the war on poverty, subverted the constitution with affirmative action, tolerated blantant black racism on subjects that wouldn't be tolerated if they were white, endured crime, out of wedlock births at 85%, etc. etc. etc. When will blacks hold themselves accountable?

April 12, 2012 at 9:17 a.m.
chet123 said...

TIMBO....DONT ACT A BIMBO...LISTEN CLOSELY...ONLY A GOOD OLE BOY IS STUPID ENOUGH TO SAY THAT......ONLY THE RIGHT-WING NUTS ARE OBSESSE OVER THIS TRIAL

YOU FIND YOURSELF STANDING ALONE BECAUSE YOU HAVE ALIENATED THE SENSIBLE WHITE PEOPLE AND ALL DEMOCRATS..HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE OUT THERE BY YOURSELF? Hmmmmmm?..DO IT FEELS SCARED??..NOW YOU AND THE GOOD OLE BOYS TRYING TO PLAY THE GAME OF UNIFICATION..HA HA HA HA HA HA..THAT DOG DONT HUNT ANYMORE HA HA HA HA

YOU TALK ABOUT THE BLACK PANTHERS AS IF THERES HUNDREDS OR EVEN THOUSANDS,....THIS IS FOX NEWS PROPAGANDA THAT YOU AND THE RIGHT-WINGS NUT LIVE AND DIE BY...HA HA HA HA....LET ME GIVE YOU A FEW FACT....THAT GROUP CAN BE COUNTED ON ONE HAND....AND THEY CANT GET ANY SUPPORT FROM THE BLACK COMMUNITY.....DOES THIS DISAPPOINT YOU??????Hmmmmmm?...NOW WHOSE THE RACE BAITER????Hmmmmmmmm? GOT YOU! HA HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 9:18 a.m.
chet123 said...

HEY TIMBO...I'M OVER HERE BUDDY....LOOK LIKE YOU THE ONE WHO DONT HAVE A CLUE.....BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND SINCE YOU ONLY WATCH FOX NEWS HA HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 9:20 a.m.
chet123 said...

HEY TIMBO....YOU RIGHT-WING NUT HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.....SEE YOU TRYING TO CONSOLIDATE THE DEMOCRATS WITH YOU TO UNIFY SOME SUPPORT.....WHAT WRONG???? YOU CANT STAND ON YOUR OWN HA HA HA!

THATS AN OLD TRICK FROM THE GOOD OLE BOY PLAY-BOOK THAT USE TO WORK IN THE PAST....THIS IS A NEW GENERATION....A GENERATION WHO DONT SHARE IN YOUR PREJUDICE AND BIGOTRY....I HAVE TOO MANY WHITE FRIEND THATS LAUGHING AT YOU...AND I'M ABOUT TO DO THAT ALSO HA HA HA HA HA!

April 12, 2012 at 9:29 a.m.
timbo said...

chet123....If I am standing alone against people like you that's fine with me. It's early, wait till this afternoon and you might change your mind about how many people don't agree with you. This is a liberal blog in a liberal newspaper. So what if you don't like what I say.

I really don't care what democrats or the "black community" thinks. All they want is us to cower down every time something like this happens. I am not intimidated by you, Al Sharpton, MSNBC, or anyone else.

Get your excuses ready...when he is set free, the blacks will burn down thier own communities like they always do. Then you can try to explain how it is whitey's fault.

No, i don't mind being alone and right.

April 12, 2012 at 9:30 a.m.
chet123 said...

TIMBO...YOU CARE MORE ABOUT A DOG THAN A CHILD.....YOU AND FOX NEWS STATED MICHAEL VICK SHOULD BE KILL FOR KILLING DOGS.....THIS IS A HUMAN BEING AND YOU WANT TO SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG.....THANKS GOD FOR AL SHARPTON

April 12, 2012 at 9:35 a.m.
chet123 said...

TIMBO...NOW YOU ARE PART OF A POLITICAL PARTY THAT CLAIMS TO BE PRO-LIFE......WHAT A LIE...PRO-LIFE?.....YOU AND YOUR BUDDY ARE AGENT OF EVIL!

April 12, 2012 at 9:37 a.m.
chet123 said...

TIMBO...YOU CAN CALL SHARPTON A LOT OF THINGS....BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM PROTECT A CHILD KILLER..TIMBO...YOU ARE BUDDY...MAYBE YOU NEED TO BORROW AL SHARPTON MORALS AND DECENCY

April 12, 2012 at 9:42 a.m.
davisss13 said...

When the Republican party talks race it loses every single time. I encourage you to use the code words, the trigger phrases that make white folk scared.

You've already lost blacks and Hispanics for a generation... keep going.

April 12, 2012 at 9:44 a.m.
ibshame said...

"timbo said... ...Defending black racism by accusing someone who doesn't agree with you is pretty sorry.

Your reference to the KKK just shows you don't have a clue what is really going on here. This is racial appeasement and Obama stirring up his base."

There's an old saying I learned growing up as a child that's a country version of "Me thinks he protests too much" and it goes like this: A HIT DOG ALWAYS HOLLERS THE LOUDEST.

April 12, 2012 at 9:54 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

From the first time this story made the news and from the evidence presented at the time and the evidence that has been presented since, it seemed clear that an innocent young man was gunned down by a trigger-happy vigilante who went out of his way to stalk him and initiate the confrontation. Trayvon Martin was not carrying a gun or anything at all that could have been construed as a weapon; he was not causing a disturbance or harming anyone; he was merely walking peacefully on a community sidewalk in a community where he had every right to be. Granted, we don't know ALL of the story but based on the unfolding of the incident as reported, there was plenty of reason for the cops to have arrested George Zimmerman and charged him. His story simply did not add up and the cops had every reason to doubt his "self defense" excuse.

To those of you who have been quick to come to Zimmerman's defense and who are crying about how we libs and the blacks are playing the race card, I say you'r full of crap. Nobody, not even Trayvon Martin's parents, are calling for Zimmerman' neck in a noose. We (they) just want justice served, it's as simple as that. If Zimmerman is truly innocent, let the facts of the case speak for themselves and let him be tried in a court of law. And if he's guilty, let him get what's coming to him.

You Zimmerman defenders are the ones exhibiting a knee-jerk reaction and letting your emotions and your ideology (support for a seneless law that sanctions vigilantism) cloud your judgment. What if it had been your son who was killed in such a manner? I'm certain you would not be saying, "Well, Geroge Zimmerman had every right to kill my son. Just leave the poor guy alone."

April 12, 2012 at 10 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

IB Shame says:

What happened yesterday was what should have happened the night Zimmerman killed an UNARMED kid. It remains to be seen if this case will ever get to trial because of Florida's insane law.

The way I see it, and the only was IB can see it, is based on facts. We pretend we know this guy hunted down an unarmed kid cause media tells us (what it wants us to hear). Maybe unarmed kid should ask the dude he's gonna attack if he's armed or not. We don't know who started this fight. Read the REAL ploice report. Don't listen to CNN.

April 12, 2012 at 10:05 a.m.
chet123 said...

HEY TIMBO....ARE YOU SCARED....THIS WHAT YOU GET FOR KISSING THE BUTTS OF THE RICH AND GREEDY....

BLACK AND WHITES ARE UNIFIED......WE ARE NEIGHBORS...WE SHARE FAMILIES....WE ARE BEST OF FRIENDS....TIMBO YOU ARE A FOSSIL...I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU

April 12, 2012 at 10:06 a.m.
MTJohn said...

timbo said...No, a trial was unwarranted. The local authorities determined that this was self-defense. They make decisions every day on whether or not to prosecute. This case should have never been interfered with by this out of control prosecutor.

Apparently this "out of control prosecutor" disagrees with you. What ever else you might say about her, she does know more about the facts in this case than you. She seems to think there is probable cause to refute Zimmerman's claim of self defense. Thus, the appropriate forum to sort out all of this is the courts.

April 12, 2012 at 10:08 a.m.
limric said...

Pretty good one today Clay, even if I disagree with it. You’re a dam good cartoonist either way.

The knee jerk reaction by many, an example being NYC Mayor Bloomberg (a billionaire who pays for armed protection) asking that states repeal Stand your Ground laws, is a direct attack on ones right to self-defense. We should not have to make some sort of retreat when we are faced with danger from another human being bent on attacking us.

On to the Zimmerman vs. the Vampires case. What a fiasco.

I find it telling that the prosecutor decided not to present this case before a Grand Jury. Why, because she knew they would have declined to indict on a 2nd Degree Murder charge, and she would have been forced to charge Manslaughter. If that’s the only option on the table, she runs the risk of the jury acquitting. By charging a higher charge, she gives the jury the "out" of a lesser charge. We all know how stupid jurors here in Florida are (Casey Anthony case). So Mrs. Corey is trying to "stack the deck" so to speak, in her favor.

If my scenario is correct, would this not be considered Prosecutorial misconduct; to knowingly charge a defendant with a crime that cannot be proven in order to leverage a conviction of a lesser, more appropriate(?) charge. Also, did anyone else pick up on the fact that she seemed to say "justice for Trayvon" a lot more than "seeker of truth"...It seemed she caught herself and realized what she was saying, and then started throwing in the definition of a prosecutors role....

They filed charges to appease the public (prosecution through intimidation if you will) - pure and simple. They charged 2nd Degree Murder. There is no way can they prove that!

Me, I’m waiting to see what happens when this actually goes to trial. In the meantime, everyone and his brother will keep second guessing the situation. If it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense, then yea, he deserves some prison time. If not, he deserves to go free. This whole mess has been driven by race vampires and parroted by an infotainment media. It will not turn out well regardless of the verdict.

Heaven help Sanford and the greater Orlando area if Zimmerman is found not guilty.

April 12, 2012 at 10:11 a.m.

whatsnottaken, there's no doubt that Zimmerman CHOSE his actions, and those actions included carrying a gun, firing a gun AND getting into the situation where he presented himself as a threat to another person.

All he had to do was stay in his car. He didn't even have to drive away.

The police reports are not the bastion of truth you want them to be either, police officers can edit their presentation just as well as the media. They've even got training to do so.

Limric, in this case, doesn't that right to self-defense trump the claims about how Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman? After all, if Martin felt threatened, he had the right to defend himself.

We can argue all day about self-defense, but my belief is that to assert that defense, you should be defending your conduct in court, not outside of it. That's a matter of legal procedure more than the right. If you're going to take a life, I don't find it unfair to make you answer for it in front of a jury.

And no, the prosecutor not opting for a grand jury doesn't mean what you think. This prosecutor has skipped the grand jury numerous times before, and that's actually very common in Florida from what I understand. Since it was the other prosecutor who called it, perhaps it was THAT prosecutor who was looking for a way out. Either way, you wouldn't be able to get far with a complaint, it'd fall under the aegis of prosecutorial discretion. Only the most manifest abuses get punished.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if the jury did decide to split the difference, acquitting on the top count, convicting on the lower count, but then that happens thousands of times already.

And yes, if Zimmerman were found not guilty, it would cause unrest. Shouldn't the people be upset when they perceive injustice? What should the people do, quietly tolerate a system where they are convinced that they will be wronged? Of course, the people can also be the abusers (including in this city here!), but is there anything which can't be wrong in one case, while right in another?

April 12, 2012 at 10:18 a.m.
MTJohn said...

limric said...We all know how stupid jurors here in Florida are (Casey Anthony case).

If you are going to indict Florida jurors for their decision in the Casey Anthony case, you should also indict them for electing state legislators who would pass Florida's version of stand your ground and electing a governor who would sign it!

limric said...Me, I’m waiting to see what happens when this actually goes to trial. In the meantime, everyone and his brother will keep second guessing the situation.

Apparently, everyone and his brother includes you.

April 12, 2012 at 10:19 a.m.
chet123 said...

TIMBO.....I HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR ZIMMERMANN THAN I HAVE RESPECT FOR YOU,THE RIGHT-WING NUTS AND FOX NEWS....

I TRULY BELEIVE THAT ZIMMERMANN HAVE MENTAL ISSUES....IN OTHER WORDS THE MAN BREAD NOT BAKED...HES A CRAZY MAN.....HE PROBABLY INFLUENCE BY FOX TV AND THE RIGHT-WING GUN MOVEMENT..........BUT YOU EXPRESSED YOUR BIAS AND RACIAL HATE

MAYBE ITS BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF WHITE VOTER ARE GOOD PEOPLE....NOT LIKE THE RIGHT-WING NUTS(A DYING BREED)WHO HAVE HATE FOR THE PRESIDENT....THEIR STRATEGY HAVE BACK-FIRED ON RIGHT-WING NUTS....

April 12, 2012 at 10:25 a.m.
ibshame said...

NOTHING changes these facts: Trayvon Martin was walking home from the store in a neighborhood where his father's fiancee lived. He was not breaking into any homes, he was not peeking into windows, he was not slicing tires, he was not doing anything other than WALKING home. What was wrong with that and why did Zimmerman consider him SUSPICIOUS?? Well, he had on a hoodie, so what? It was raining. What else? Zimmerman didn't reconize him. So What? Did Zimmerman know every person who came into the neighborhood? The bottom line is this: Zimmerman had no right to approach this kid or to follow him. Even if he thought Trayvon Martin was up to no good (which we have yet to hear why he thought that other than he said the person had his hands in his pockets) he should have notified the police then WAITED for them to arrive.

Zimmerman didn't do that. Instead he was pursuing this UNARMED kid with a 9mm gun somewhere on his person. He didn't have any business even approaching this kid at all. HE WAS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!

April 12, 2012 at 10:28 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ibshame: You were there, were you?

April 12, 2012 at 10:44 a.m.
chet123 said...

LIMRIC.....MAYBE IF IT WAS YOUR BROTHER,SISTER,MOTHER OR FATHER....YOU WOULDNT BE SUCH A COPACETIC LAYED-BACK COOL CAT....

LET ME REMIND YOU...THIS WAS A YOUTH,A HUNDRED POUND LIGHTER,11 YEARS YOUNGER...UNARMED...IN HIS OWN NEIGHBORHOOH/COMMUNITY....THIS IS NOT A COMPLICATED CASE......VERY SIMPLE!

IF IT WAS YOUR BROTHER YOU WOULD CUT LOOSE WITH A FURY OF HATE DEMANDING JUSTICE BE DONE...AND EXECUTE THE BUM..HANG HIM...KILL HIM...HOW CAN THE STUPID POLICE LET THIS GUY GO HOME TO DESTROY THE EVIDENCE."THIS IS WHAT YOU WOULD SAY" LIMRIC.....DONT SAY YOU WOULDNT......YOU WOULD WANT HIM DEAD.....YOU HAVE ALREADY ADMITTED THAT YOU CARRY A GUN...SO YOU DONT VALUE LIVES....ONLY YOURS

April 12, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
chet123 said...

HEY SANTA CLAUS....IF YOU WANT TO DEFEND A CHILD KILLER...SAY SO!....STOP POKING AROUND....HAVE THE BACK-BONE TO SAY IT SANTA CLAUS(JACK DENNIS)

AND BY THE WAY....STOP POSTING IN FRAGMENTS....STRING A COMPLETE SENTENCE TOGETHER.....

YOU ARE ONE OF THE GOOD OLE BOYS....DONT TRY TO HIDE IT....YOU HAVE A VESTED INTEREST(TO GO BACK TO THE 50'S...HAPPY DAYS HA HA HA)

April 12, 2012 at 10:53 a.m.
ibshame said...

"Jack_Dennis said... ibshame: You were there, were you?"

No and neither were you or the others who seem to think it was o.k. for Zimmerman to approach this kid.

April 12, 2012 at 10:54 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

EaTn said: "The best we can hope for in this case is that state legislators will not be so quick to enact laws that encourage vigilantism."

Well, EaTn, I wouldn’t count on this happening any time soon. We seem to have an over abundance of individuals in leadership positions today who lack basic integrity and common sense. In this particular case, the State of Florida has set up a law that not only places the general public at the mercy of gun owners who may or may not have good intent or the capability of good judgment, but a law in which gun owners who kill innocent people are not required or even expected by the criminal justice system to formally demonstrate that they acted with good intent or good judgement. The only reason this particular case has move forward within the criminal justice system is because of the public outcry.

April 12, 2012 at 10:55 a.m.
chet123 said...

HEY POSTERS....WANT TO HAVE A GOOD LAUGH....LOOK AT JACK DENNIS FACE.....WHO DOES HE LOOK LIKE????? SANTA CLAUS!..BINGO!BINGO!

April 12, 2012 at 10:56 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

He do

April 12, 2012 at 10:57 a.m.
chet123 said...

JACK DENNIS(SANTA CLAUS) SAID HE DO..HA HA HA HA HA HA..THATS ALL YOU HAVE TO SAY JACK!!!.THIS GUY DONT KNOW ENGLISH....HE TALK LIKE A CAVE MAN......IN FRAGMENTS HA HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 11:02 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

DON'T THROW STONES

Hey Chet, at least Jack is man enough to show his face.

Some people are too chicken to even post an avatar.

Et tu?

April 12, 2012 at 11:06 a.m.
chet123 said...

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE RIGHT-WING NUTTY REPUBLICAN....THEY DONT HAVE THE ABILITY TO GOVERNED....I WISH THEY WOULD JUST GO AWAY...GO!GO!GO!GO!...LEAVE US ALONE HERE IN AMERICA...THEY DONT CONTRIBUTES ANYTHING TO OUR SOCIETY BUT TO DIVIDE US.....I WISH RICH AND GREEDY AND THE RIGHT-WING NUTTY BUTT KISSER WOULD JUST SEPERATE THEMSELVE FROM AMERICA......LET THEM LIVE IN HARMONY WITH THE RICH AND GREEDY(HA HA HA..THEY CAN BE THE RICH AND GREEDY SLAVES HA HA HA)....THEY HAVE WEAKEN AMERICA.....THEY ARE ONLY PARASITES,MAGGOTS!

April 12, 2012 at 11:08 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Chet's just proud he can remember his name. He learned to count to 3 in his third year at 2nd grade. Then he dropped out. HAHAHAHAHAHA

April 12, 2012 at 11:12 a.m.
chet123 said...

HA HA HA...BLACKWATER...NOW I HAVE TO GET HIM TO POST A COMPLETE STATEMENT....I WOULD SETTLE FOR A SIMPLE SENTENCE .....NO COMPOUND OR COMPLEX SENTENCE HA HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 11:12 a.m.
chet123 said...

OK SANTA CLAUS....YOU WON...HA HA HAHA

April 12, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Chet is the product of the nomadic life as son of a career army officer....

April 12, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
chet321 said...

I CANT SPELL.... HAHAHA I DONT KNOW HOW TO USE A CAPS BUTTON.... HAHHA... I HAVE A FULL DECK OF RACE CARDS TO PLAY WHEN NEEDED HAHAHAHA... ALL BLACK AMERICANS ARE INNOCENT AND WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST HAHAHAHA.... I HAVE CARNAL KNOWLEDGE OF MY SISTER AND I ENJOY MAYONAISE SANDWICHES HAHAHAH....

April 12, 2012 at 11:15 a.m.
davisss13 said...

I may not agree with him all the time but at least he doesn't type in caps.

April 12, 2012 at 11:15 a.m.
chet123 said...

HA HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 11:16 a.m.
chet123 said...

SOMEONE PUSHED THE PANIC BUTTON....GOT YOU! HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.
chet123 said...

I'M BACK

April 12, 2012 at 11:53 a.m.
chet123 said...

THIS IS A SPECIAL MESSAGE TO ALL DEMOCRATS,INDEPENDENTS AND PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL...

MY INFO NAME IS CHET123 NOT CHET321...THERE IS AN ATTEMP TO CENSOR MY POSTS BY SABOTAGING MY NAME CHET123 WITH A COUNTERFEIT NAME CHET321......OBSERVE CLOSELY...IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT...RUN A TRACK......

April 12, 2012 at 12:01 p.m.
facyspacy said...

"I'm Chet123?" Like people know who you are and actually listen to you? You're a clown show

April 12, 2012 at 12:06 p.m.
chet123 said...

THIS IS WHAT HAPPEN WHEN THE RIGHT-WING NUTTY DONT HAVE A VALID ISSUE....THEY PLAY GAMES...THEY VIOLATE THE FIRST AMENDMENT..FREEDOM OF SPEECH....JUST LIKE THEY VIOLATE THE RIGHT TO VOTE BY SUPPRESSING VOTERS WITH ID'S AND POLL TAXES.........

THIS IS HOW THE RIGHT-WING NUTTY GOVERNS.....THEY ARE AGENTS OF EVIL.....HA HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 12:11 p.m.
chet123 said...

FACYSPACY...IF THATS THE CASE....WHY ARE YOU SO FRIGHTEN...Hmmm???...WHY ARE YOU SO FRIGHTEN??????? IS IT BECAUSE I HAVE THE TRUTH ON MY SIDE...AND YOU AND YOUR RIGHT-WINGS NUTTY BUTT KISSING OF THE RICH AND GREEDY DONT!Hmmmmm?

April 12, 2012 at 12:17 p.m.
chet123 said...

WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF THIS CLOWN????Hmmmm?...THAT DONT SAY A LOT ABOUT YOU AND YOUR BUTT KISSER OF THE RICH AND GREEDY

April 12, 2012 at 12:19 p.m.
chet123 said...

FACYSPACY....GO BACK AND TELL YOU BUTT KISSING 30PIECES OF SILVER,BENEDICT ARNOLD, JUDAS,DEFENDER OF A CHILD-KILLER, FRIEND THAT THEY WILL NOT CENSOR MY POSTING........

THIS BUNCH OF BOZOS HAVE WEAKEN AMERICA....WITH THE RIGHT-WING NUTTY GOVERNING HOW CAN THIS COUNTRY BE STRONG IN FOREIGN DIPLOMACY WHEN THE REPUBLICAN NUTTY CANT DIALOGUE WITH THEIR OWN FELLOW AMERICAN ON SIMPLE MATTERS....Hmmmm?

April 12, 2012 at 12:28 p.m.
chet123 said...

HEY FACYSPACY...YOU PROBABLY THE COWARD THAT COUNTERFEITED MY NAME

April 12, 2012 at 12:31 p.m.
limric said...

Chet123,

Trayvon Martin was NOT quote, “YOUR BROTHER,SISTER,MOTHER,OR FATHER” either. So what then do you base your rhetoric? If not race, then what?

Quote: “LET ME REMIND YOU”. OK, then let ME remind you. It was dark and Martin was at least 6 feet tall, several inches taller than the 5-foot-9 Zimmerman. Martin was not, nor acted the child he appears to be in photos flashed across television and newspapers.

Quote, “THIS IS NOT A COMPLICATED CASE......VERY SIMPLE”, Well alright then, let’s look at the facts as we know them – shall we. Zimmerman observes and follows Martin while calling 911. Martin takes off running. Zimmerman follows against the advice of 911 dispatch - But then stops – and begins returning to his vehicle. So far, NO CRIME HAS OCCURRED! Martin comes up from behind & whaps Zimmerman in the face knocking him on his back - Simple battery. Martin jumps on top of him and again punches him several times in the face- Aggravated battery. Zimmerman, now on the ground, can’t get Martin off of him. Martin then grabs Zimmerman’s head and bangs it into the sidewalk - Assault (attempted murder?). Zimmerman can’t get Martin to stop. He then shoots Martin one time defending his life. Zimmerman and a witness confirm this story. Tragic yes, but self-defense nevertheless. Sanford PD saw that. The DA's office saw it. That should have been the end of story.

But no, some of this country’s best agent provocateurs described the events as Martin, the innocent little boy skipping home from the store and the evil Zimmerman, crouching low, skulking up with teeth barred, gunning him down in cold blood. Regardless of the fact that there is not one shred of evidence corroborating these type of stories they have convinced the public that Zimmerman was guilty guilty guilty! Or we’ll find something to make him guilty!

The third paragraph of your10:49 post is a straw man to which I ask again. If Trayvon Martin was not your brother, sister, mother or father. Then what do you base your rhetoric?

You’re NOT winning your case!

April 12, 2012 at 12:33 p.m.
facyspacy said...

I went back and told them.... They said that even special needs people have the right to an opinion too.

April 12, 2012 at 12:34 p.m.
chet123 said...

TO ALL THE RIGHT-WING COWARD THATS PROVOKE AGRUEMENT THEN RUN AND PLAY VICTIMS LIKE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN...I WILL CALL YOU OUT! HA HA HA HA

I PERFER HAVING A CIVIL CONVERSATION ON VARIOUS ISSUES.....BUT WHEN I DONT AGREE THE RIGHT-WING COOTS REPUBLICAN RESULTS TO NAME CALLING.....HA HA HA HA.....THEN THEY RUN AND HIDE....THIS IS OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN PLAY-BOOK..HA HA HA HA HA HA....ITS SO CHILDISH HA HA HA HA...THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRATS ARE DEALING WITH.....THIS IS WHY THE REPUBLICAN NEED TO BE STOMP OUT OF POLITICAL OFFICE....THEY WILL HAVE THE WHOLE WORLD HATING US.....THEY ARE THE AGENTS OF EVIL.....SATAN CHILDREN.....GREEDY DEVILS HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 12:37 p.m.
chet123 said...

LIMRIC....I BASE IT ON ROLE REVERSAL....YOU WOULD BE CRYING OUT MURDER....DONT SAY YOU WOULDNT....

THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE LIMRIC...YOU WILL NEVER SEE BLACKS OR REAL DEMOCRATS OF GOOD WILL DEFENDING A CHILD-KILLER....NEVER, NEVER!

April 12, 2012 at 12:41 p.m.
chet123 said...

NOT WHEN THE CRIME COMMITTED IS ABSOLUTE!!!....NO WAY MAN!!!!

April 12, 2012 at 12:42 p.m.
chet123 said...

YOU WANT TO TALK LIKE A DEMOCRAT....BUT I DONT TRUST YOU DOG!....WHY DONT YOU GO OVER TO THE REPUBLICAN SIDE....I HATE WISHY WASHY PEOPLE....THEY SEEM TO BE MIXED-UP.....

THEY HAVE NO CONVICTION ON ANYTHING.....

April 12, 2012 at 12:47 p.m.
chet123 said...

LIMRIC....IF SOMEONE WAS BREAKING INTO YOUR HOUSE OR YOUR CAR WHILE YOU ARE IN IT....I SUPPORT YOUR RIGHT TO DEFEND YOUR LIFE....

BUT WHEN THE GUN OWNER DECLARE WAR ON THE UNARM AMERICAN...YOU THEN CROSS THE LINE LIMRIC....ITS THAT SIMPLE.....NOT COMPLICATED...IF YOU DECIDE TO VIOLATE A UNARM CITIZEN RIGHT....YOU SHOULD BE PROSECUTED TO THE HIGHEST EXTENT.....

PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ZIMMERMAN ARE DANGEOUS WITH A GUN....BOTH OF YOU ARE INSECURE PEOPLE

April 12, 2012 at 12:52 p.m.
limric said...

Chet123,

What absolute crime was committed? Emotion and supposition are NO substitute for fact and law. And frankly, I find your argument based on 'role reversal' disingenuous at best and a disguised code for something you are loath to admit but are quick to accuse others of.

April 12, 2012 at 12:55 p.m.
limric said...

Quote, "*BUT WHEN THE GUN OWNER DECLARE WAR ON THE UNARM AMERICAN...YOU THEN CROSS THE LINE LIMRIC." What a croc 'o' bull cookies!!

Well you know the saying, "If you can't dazzle 'em' with brilliance, baffle 'em' with bullsh^t." You're a living example of that. If you've got some factual evidence to support your case then lets hear it. NOT emotion,supposition, empty accusations or role reversal.

Stop digging Chet.

April 12, 2012 at 1:05 p.m.
ibshame said...

"limric said... Well alright then, let’s look at the facts as we know them – shall we. Zimmerman observes and follows Martin while calling 911. Martin takes off running. Zimmerman follows against the advice of 911 dispatch - But then stops – and begins returning to his vehicle. So far, NO CRIME HAS OCCURRED! Martin comes up from behind & whaps Zimmerman in the face knocking him on his back - Simple battery. Martin jumps on top of him and again punches him several times in the face- Aggravated battery. Zimmerman, now on the ground, can’t get Martin off of him. Martin then grabs Zimmerman’s head and bangs it into the sidewalk - Assault (attempted murder?). Zimmerman can’t get Martin to stop. He then shoots Martin one time defending his life. Zimmerman and a witness confirm this story. Tragic yes, but self-defense nevertheless. Sanford PD saw that. The DA's office saw it. That should have been the end of story."

No, those are not the FACTS as we know them. Zimmerman's story unravels around the so-called FACT that Trayvon Martin came up from BEHIND and started attacking him. THERE ARE NO WITNESSES TO THAT SO-CALLED FACT. This is the story Zimmerman told, there is not one single witness who has come forward to say they saw Trayvon Martin sneak up BEHIND Zimmerman and start hitting him. NOT ONE. Forensic experts say the voice crying out for help is not the voice of Zimmerman.

You seem so quick to accept Zimmerman's statement as fact yet you denigrate others who do not. Zimmerman never had any reason to follow Trayvon from the start. IT WAS NOT HIS PLACE TO PLAY ROBOCOP. Trayvon Martin was not armed with anything. Not a knife, not a shank, NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle armed with a 9mm gun. He didn't carry that gun for the purpose of just watching.

Zimmerman brought this situation on himself. He has no one to blame but himself. With all that being said, in the end I still believe he will walk not because of his so-called self-defense claim but because of that idiotic, insane Florida law. If this case ever goes to trial it will be at least a year or more.

April 12, 2012 at 1:13 p.m.
chet123 said...

LIMRIC....YOU SHOULD BE ASHAME FABRICATING SUCH A LIE AGAINST A 140 BOY(LIKE HE HAS SUPERMAN STRENGHT) AGAINST A 230LBS MAN....A BOY THAT 17YROLD...... A MAN THAT 28YROLD.....MARTIN WEARING PLAIN CLOTHING....ALSO ZIMMERMAN WEARING PLAIN CLOTHING(NO POLICE UNIFORM) NO BADGE....ZIMMERMANN LOOKED LIKE A COMMON THUG.....

MARTIN HAVE THE RIGHT TO WALK IN HIS OWN NEIGHBORHOOD....LIMRIC...WHY ARE YOU TALKING SO STUPID?????THIS IS AMERICA....NOT 1950 SOUTH AFRICA!!!!!...MARTIN HAD ALL RIGHT TO GO TO STORE AND BACK HOME.....HE OWE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN NO EXCUSE....WHAT WRONG WITH YOU LIMRIC.....

YOU HAVE WRTTEN A ESSAY THAT IS FLAWED WITH UNTRUE AND BALD-FACE LIES.....WHATS YOUR PROBLEM?????WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE...GOD!.....LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN...WHO TOLD YOU THAT YOU WERE GOD MARTIN OWED ZIMMERMAN NO EXPLAINATION...MARTIN DIDNT ENCROACH ON ZIMMERMAN....ZIMMERMAN ENCROACH ON MARTIN.....ONCE ZIMMERMANN GOT OUT OF THAT TRUCK...HE WAS VIOLATING MARTIN BOUNDERY.....THIS IS SIMPLE!...AND BY THE WAY...WHAT INTEREST DO YOU HAVE IN THIS TRIAL....Hmmmm? YOU SHOW NO SYPATHY FOR THE MARTINS...YOU JUST WORRY ABOUT THAT THUG GEORGE ZIMMERMAN....BUDDY YOU MUST BE IN LINE WITH ALEC Hmmmm...I BETTER WATCH YOU! HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 1:14 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

limric. You're wasting your fingertips. The man is oblivious to the truth. Plus, he's a plant for TFP.

April 12, 2012 at 1:17 p.m.
chet123 said...

IBSHAME...YOU ARE SO CORRECT.....BUT LIMRIC BELEIVING IN THE LIES BECAUSE HE WANT TO BELEIVE IN THE LIES.....THIS IS WHO LIMRIC IS.......

ZIMMERMAN HAD ALMOST 2 MONTHS TO SCRIPT A LIE......AND LIMRIC QUOTING THOSE LIES LIKE IT THE TRUTH..... HA HA HA....REALLY AMAZING!

April 12, 2012 at 1:19 p.m.
chet123 said...

JACK SANTA CLAUS DENNIS......YOU WOULDNT KNOW THE TRUTH EVEN IF IT WAS LYING IN BED WITH YOUR WIFE....

HOW DARE YOU PROCLAIM THE TRUTH.....WHO ARE YOU GOD......THIS WHAT YOUR PASTOR TEACHES YOU IN CHURCH?????

TELL HIM CHET WANT TO TALK TO HIM.....SEE WHY 600,000 MEN DIED IN THE CIVIL WAR....AND FOOLS LIKE YOU SCRATHING YOUR HEAD ASKING WHAT HAPPEN????...DUMB!DUMB!DUMB!

April 12, 2012 at 1:25 p.m.
chet123 said...

OH I FORGOT....YOU VALUE A DOG LIFE ABOVE A HUMAN LIFE......THIS IS WHAT YOUR PASTOR TEACHES YOU ISNT IT!...HA HA HA

DARN THE 17YEAR OLD BOY LIFE....I HAVE MINE CHUCK!CHUCK!CHUCK!

HOPE YOU FEEL REAL PIOUS WHILE YOU DRIVING TO CHURCH TO WORSHIP GOD....OLD MAN.....BE CAREFUL.....LIFE CAN COME BACK ON YOU AND MAKE YOU EAT YOUR WORDS......YOU MAKE AS WELL HAVE THAT 17YO BOY BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS....LAUGH ABOUT THAT...CHUCK!CHUCK!CHUCK!

April 12, 2012 at 1:32 p.m.
limric said...

You are correct ibshame, There is not a witness that saw Trayvon Martin sneak up behind Zimmerman. The witness I mentioned saw Martin on top of Zimmerman.

To wit: “The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,” Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red. “When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.”

I stand corrected.

I only denigrate those that use emotion, opinion and supposition as a basis for law and fact.

April 12, 2012 at 1:38 p.m.
chet123 said...

THE RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN NUTS ARE HIDING.....GOING INTO THEIR STEALTH MODE HA HA HA HAIS THIS THE WAY YOU RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN OPERATED WITH ALECHmmmmmmm...GO IN HIDING AND UNDERMINE THE COUNTRY...Hmmmmm?

WORK IN SECRECY Hmmmmmm?...THE PEOPLE ARE ON TO YOU....SNEEKING SCHEMING..AND LYING...

April 12, 2012 at 1:40 p.m.
chet123 said...

IMRIC....YOU STAND CORRECTED ON A LOT OF THING YOU HAVE SAID....I TRIED TO TELL YOU BUT YOU WERE SO FAITHFUL TO A THUG LIKE ZIMMERMAN....THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT TO BELEIVE.....

April 12, 2012 at 1:43 p.m.
chet123 said...

LIMRIC...IF THERE WAS NO WITNESS...WHY WOULD YOU MAKE THAT LIE UP!

YOU CANT CALL YOURSELF A DEMOCRAT LYING LIKE THAT .. MAYBE YOU BELONG ON THE OTHER SIDE

April 12, 2012 at 1:46 p.m.
limric said...

Yea, like what?

April 12, 2012 at 1:47 p.m.
MTJohn said...

limric said...I only denigrate those that use emotion, opinion and supposition as a basis for law and fact.

Would that include the perpetrators of "stand your ground laws"?

April 12, 2012 at 1:52 p.m.
chet123 said...

WHERES ALL THE RIGHT-WINGS Hmmmm?

GOT TO GET BACK TO MY BUSINESS......BE BACK LATER!

April 12, 2012 at 1:53 p.m.
limric said...

MTJohn said, "Would that include the perpetrators of "stand your ground laws"?

Apples and oranges. An interesting use of verbiage though. Equating 'stand your ground law' with something ostensibly illegal or criminal is pretty slick but is of course a logical fallacy...a false dichotomy if you will.

April 12, 2012 at 2:06 p.m.
mymy said...

Oh my, somebody woke the idiot up today!

April 12, 2012 at 2:08 p.m.
chet123 said...

LIMRIC...SAYS...HE ONLY DENIGRATE THOSE THAT USE EMOTIONS,OPINION AND SUPPOSITION AS A BASIS FOR LAW AND FACTS....

LIMRIC TALK AS IF HE IS THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR ANGLEA COREY WITH ALL THE FACTS....THIS BOZO HAVE WRTTEN AN ESSAY BASE ON LIES AND SUPPOSITIONS....AND HE TALK ABOUT DENIGRATING EMOTION,OPINION AND SUPPOSITION

THIS IS ALL YOU HAVE LIMRIC!!!

THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF A EDUCATED FOOL.....AN ABSOLUTE EGGHEAD WHO THINKS HES INTELLIGENT HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

April 12, 2012 at 2:10 p.m.
chet123 said...

MYMY...DONT RUN YOU RIGHT-WING RICH AND GREEDY BUTT KISSER GEORGE ZIMMERMAN DEFENDER.....

April 12, 2012 at 2:12 p.m.
MTJohn said...

limric said...

MTJohn said, "Would that include the perpetrators of "stand your ground laws"?

Apples and oranges. An interesting use of verbiage though. Equating 'stand your ground law' with something ostensibly illegal or criminal is pretty slick but is of course a logical fallacy...a false dichotomy if you will.

Really?? Opinion, emotion and supposition v. fact applies as much to the argument in favor of "stand your ground" as it does to the determination of what is/is not fact in this case.

April 12, 2012 at 2:21 p.m.
limric said...

"Opinion, emotion and supposition v. fact applies as much to the argument in favor of "stand your ground" as it does to the determination of what is/is not fact in this case."

How?

April 12, 2012 at 2:27 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Chet: Just wishing Zimmerman guilty does not make him guilty. (I realize wishing & hoping is part of the left wing schtick)

April 12, 2012 at 2:28 p.m.
limric said...

Yep Chet123, That's all I got. Which is a might bit better than what you brung to the table. Which is nothing. You haven't added anything to promote a solid case for your previous accusation of murder. NOTHING. I asked you to, but all you've submitted are insults.

Well, it's back to the freeway - which is already in progress. Se ye's later.

April 12, 2012 at 2:33 p.m.
MTJohn said...

limric said..."Opinion, emotion and supposition v. fact applies as much to the argument in favor of "stand your ground" as it does to the determination of what is/is not fact in this case."

How?

In the justification for the need for stand your ground laws in the first place.

And, I'd suggest that your justification of Zimmerman's actions is based more in opinion and emotion than on fact. Even if your understanding of the events is correct, it is an incomplete account. Except for Zimmerman's account, we do not know how he and Martin ended up in the altercation on the ground. There has been no evidence reported in the media to suggest that Martin was using or threatening the use of unlawful force. We will never know Martin's side of the story, but there seem to be legitimate reason for questioning whether Zimmerman's account squares with the timing of events, as documented in his and other calls to 911 and the time of Martin's phone call with his girlfriend. None of this equates to a determination of Zimmerman's guilt. However, it does argue strongly for the weighing of all of the evidence by a jury of Zimmerman's peers.

Jack_Dennis said...Chet: Just wishing Zimmerman guilty does not make him guilty. (I realize wishing & hoping is part of the left wing schtick)

And, just wishing him innocent does not make him not guilty. That's why civilized societies have a judiciary.

April 12, 2012 at 2:39 p.m.
chet123 said...

HA HA HA HA...LISTEN TO LIMRIC TALK HA HA HA HA.....CUT THE BULL MAN....YOU ARE IN EAST TENNESSEE....YOU ARE MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF....NO ONE TALK LIKE THAT IN EAST TN.....I WILL BREAK IT DOWN TO LAY PEOPLE ENGLISH....

MTJOHN WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE LAW-BREAKERS USING STAND MY GROUND LAWS

LIMRIC...PRAISES HIM ON HIS WORDING!SAYS IT INTERESTING

VISIBLIY ILLEGAL OR CRIMINAL PRETTY SLICK(WHAT SLICK ABOUT THIS) BUT A LOGIC FALLACY(THIS STATEMENT IS UNTRUE)

NOTICE HOW VAGUE OF AN ANSWER THAT WAS GIVEN BY LIMRIC.....THIS IS THE BS YOU ANSWER WITH WHEN YOU DONT HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON......

THIS REMIND ME OF THE OFFICER ON FRED SANFORD WHO NEEDS AN INTERPRETER HA HA HA HA.....

THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL AN EDUCATED FOOL

April 12, 2012 at 2:44 p.m.
chet123 said...

HEY..IM STILL HERE HA HA HA....I CAN TALK FOR MY SELF DENNIS....YOUR GOOD OLE BOYS POLICE DEPARTMENT TRIED TO SWEEP THIS KILLING UNDER THE RUG......

SO LET TELL THE TRUTH JACK....TELL THE TRUTH FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE..THE POLICE DIDNT DO THEIR JOB....THANKS GOD FOR AL SHARPTON....IF YOU WANT TO SHUT SHARPTON UP....STOP GIVING HIM ANMO TO SHOOT AT YOU.....

April 12, 2012 at 2:51 p.m.
Lr103 said...

Hopefully the Zimmerman case won't get Casey Anthony's jurors.

Another case out of Florida where the self defense and stand your ground excuse was used, the judge gave the accused life in prison. This was a case where the shooter and a teneant who rented from him got into an altercation over unpaid rent. The accused shot and killed the tenant. Claimed self defense and evoked the stand your ground law, but the judge didn't buy that excuse.

April 12, 2012 at 2:53 p.m.
chet123 said...

HEY JACK.....IN YOUR WORLD UP IS DOWN....GUILTY IS INNOCENT...IN IS OUT....MY FRIEND YOU ARE LIVING IN A VACUUM....THIS IS WHY AMERICAN ARE HATED ALL OVER THE WORLD...ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT GIVE AMERICA A BAD NAME

April 12, 2012 at 2:56 p.m.
dao1980 said...

"STRAIN OUT A NET BUT HAVE SWALLOW A CAMEL"

Still one of my all time favorites..

Some of your absolute best work, there chet, ol' buddy ol' pal.

April 12, 2012 at 2:57 p.m.
chet123 said...

POOR LIMRIC....ITS BAD WHEN YOU ARE A FOOL AND DONT KNOW IT.....THIS IS AN EDUCATED FOOL....WHO USES GREAT GRAMMER WITH NO SUBSTANCE!!!!HA HA HA HA HA!

April 12, 2012 at 3:02 p.m.
chet123 said...

WHERE THE RIGHT-WING NUTTIES....JONESES HIDING TODAY....

THE RIGHT-WING TRIED TO CENSOR ME BY HI-JACKING MY POST'S NAME CHET123 HA HA HA HA THEY USING CHET321 HA HA HA HA...AND TRYING TO PASS IT DOWN AS ME

THIS WHAT HAPPEN WHEN YOU DONT HAVE AN ISSUE HA HA HA

April 12, 2012 at 3:08 p.m.
chet123 said...

HELLO DAO1980

THE RIGHT WING NUTS ARE HIDING...WAITING FOR ME TO LEAVE.....I'M HAVING TOO MUCH FUN WITH THESE SIMPLE MINDED BOZOS.....

April 12, 2012 at 3:12 p.m.
chet123 said...

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS A SORRY PARTY.....GO DEMOCRATS....!!

I HAVE TO FAKE AN EXIST TO GET THEM IN THIS FORUM

April 12, 2012 at 3:14 p.m.
dao1980 said...

Is there really a chet321? That sounds quite entertaining.

It's like thunder-dome in here. Hey, where the heck is Tina T.??

April 12, 2012 at 3:17 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Rickaroo - I'm not taking up for Zimmerman, because with all the stuff in the news about the shooting, no one could say whether he's guilty or not.

But, your statement when you wrote "Nobody, not even Trayvon Martin's parents, are calling for Zimmerman' neck in a noose. We (they) just want justice served, it's as simple as that" is way way wrong. Have you not heard the lady form the new black panther party state that "everyone needs to get suited up, booted up, and armed up?"

Follow this link and educate yourself. This bit*h and her organization is what's wrong with race in America. For years almost everyone, black and white have worked hard to overcome race obstacles, but these kind of people are THE PROBLEM. Listen to the whole thing... if you can. Click the silly ass panther logo with the arrow.

http://gaslamppost.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/listen-we-gots-to-suit-up-and-boot-up-new-black-panthers-calling-for-race-war/

April 12, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.
potcat said...

limric, your 12:33 post is the biggest bunch of BS i have ever read on this thread. Being laid up, i have watched a lot of tv and read several Newspappers, magazine,internet ETC. every day and i listen to both sides and i have never heard or read anything that you described happening, that hasn't already been debunked from ever occuring. Where you there to witness Trayvon jumping the Weasel? You are so wrong on so many levels of this Murder, it seems you can't stand the facts of the situation, so you make it up, talk about emotional.

Come on man, get a grip!!!

April 12, 2012 at 3:58 p.m.
chet123 said...

SHE HAS ALL THE RIGHT TO SPEAK CHATTA MAN.....NOW IF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WRITE LAWS THAT WILL PROMOTE VILGILANTE WHAT DO YOU EXPECT......STAND YOUR GROUND IS A SHOOT TO KILL LAW.....

OH...YOU FEEL SAFE...BUT A LOT OF BLACK AMERICAN DONT TRUST THE GOOD OLE BOYS WITH GUNS.....I HAVE TALKED TO A FEW IN THIS FORUM I WOULDNT TRUST....THEY ARE FULL OF HATE....

AS FOR THE BLACK PANTHER HA HA HA HA THATS A JOKE!!! FOX NEWS BALLOONING THIS GROUP AS IF THEY HAVE THOUSANDS OF MEMBERS....THEY HAVE MAYBE 5 TO 10 MEMBERS......THE MAJORITY OF BLACK(ABOUT 99.99%) ARE AGAINST THE BLACK PANTHERS...ALL THEY WANT IS JUSTICE.....IF THEY HAD MADE AN ARREST FROM THE BEGINNING....IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A ISSUE......

MY FRIEND....PLEASE SHOW ME ANYWHERE IN HISTORY...A BLACK KILL A WHITE AND WAS NOT ARRESTED....PLEASE DO YOUR HOME-WORK....THIS CONVERSATION IS OUTRAGEOUS.....BLACKS KNOW THE GOOD OLE BOYS ARE NOT FAIR....AND PRATICE DOUBLE STANDARD WITH BLACKS ....THIS IS A BLACK AMERICAN PROBLEMS..NRA AND ALEC SPEAR-HEADED THIS GUN POLICY

April 12, 2012 at 4:05 p.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Constitution, Amendment 5: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury..." How does the prosecutress proceed without a Grand Jury indictment of Mr Zimmerman? The Constitution does not specify the Miranda warning nor require that taxpayers pay for defense attorneys, but it does require a grand jury. (Mr Miranda, incidentally, was killed in a fight over a card game. The police came, read everyone their Miranda warnings--and never prosecuted. Beware: triune Jehovah has a rather sharp sense of humor. [Psalms 2, 37].)

OK, liberals, if someone knocked you down and was hitting you, and you had a gun, would you shoot him (especially if he was going for your gun)? In that narrow sense, it sounds like self-defense. How it got that way, maybe not--though I haven't heard any rumor that Mr Zimmerman was targeting Mr Martin in particular or blacks in general. He aimed at a safe neighborhood and the police weren't providing it. (Local application re our mayor's treatment of the police department? And our mayor won't let a certain crowd walk a certain street?)

If Mr Martin had killed Mr Zimmerman, would there be nearly the fuss there is now? Of course not. So: blacks are better protected than whites? Racism?

April 12, 2012 at 4:11 p.m.
chet123 said...

WHERE ARE THE RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN.....THIS IS THE GROUP RESPONSIBLE FOR ZIMMERMAN BEHAVIOR AND YOUNG MARTIN DEATH...THEY LEGISLATED FLAKY LAW LAWS THRU STATE LEGISLATOR(THIS IS WHY STATE LAWS ARE FLAWED...POLITICAIN ARE...TO MUCH NEPOTISM IN THE STATE LEGISLATORS)

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAVE PUSHED FOR FLAKY GUN LAWS AND VOTERS OPPRESSION LAWS.....WHEN EXPOSED...NOTICE HOW THEY RUN AND HIDE LIKE A LITTLE GIRL! THEY OPERATES BEHIND CLOSED DOORS...ASHAME TO PRESENT THEIR PLANS IN THE LIGHT....EVIL LOVE DARKNESS

April 12, 2012 at 4:19 p.m.
chet123 said...

ANDREWLOHN....YOU LOSE CREDIBILITY WHEN YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH...OR YOUR FIRST SENTENCE....

BUT LET ME START WITH YOUR LAST STATEMENT....IF MARTIN HAD KILLED ZIMMERMAN???SO YOU SAYING IF THE ROLE WAS REVERSED????

ANDREW....I'M TRYING TO HOLD MY PEACE....BUT WHEN I GET QUESTION LIKE THAT I HAVE TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH.....IS IT SOMETHING IN THE WATER THAT THE GOOD OLE BOYS DRINKING,,,OR ARE YOU TAUGHT THIS STUFF FROM HOME AND CHURCH...LET ME ANSWER YOU WITH A QUESTION....HAVE THERE EVER BEEN A CASE WHERE A YOUNG MAN BLACK HAVE SHOT A WHITE MAN AND WAS ALLOW TO KEEP HIS GUN AND SENT HOME WITHOUT CHARGES..Hmmmmm? Hmmmmm?....PLEASE FOR HEAVEN SAKE ...NAME ONE CASE IN THE 252YRS HISTORY OF AMERICA....ONCE....JUST ONCE....SO WHY IN THE RAT BUTT DO YOU AND THE GOOD OLE BOYS KEEP ASKING THIS QUESTION OR SAYING SOMETHING THATS FALSE........THIS IS WHY AL SHARPTON IS SO EFFECTIVE....YOU KEEP GIVING HIM AMMO TO SHOOT YOUR THEORY DOWN.....

April 12, 2012 at 4:32 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Chet, you're right in part, that she has the right to speak.

But, they don't have the right to place a bounty on someone's head and encite riots and call for the red sea and then say it's about the red sea of blood, not some body of water across the way.

I have the right to speak, but I can't yell fire in a movie theater without being arrested. They have yelled worse that that, put a nationwide bounty out on a person's head, all over what they have heard in the news.

I don't care if there is only 8 or 10 of them. It only takes one dumbass to think he saw Zimmerman and kill an innocent man by mistaken identity.

And, the chicken $hit attorney dumbass Eric Holder won't do his job and arrest or even call out the black panthers for breaking the law by putting a bounty out on an individual.

Did you follow the link and listen to the hate speech? You always say the republicans are the speakers of hate, yet you don't denounce this speech? MAN UP, CHET!

April 12, 2012 at 4:34 p.m.
PinkSalmon said...

I don't think people on either side of the issue can fully grasp or understand the significants of this tragic event and why so many right ring and nazi groups came out in support of Zimmerman. If you know American history you'd better understand why so many right wing hate groups jumped to Zimmerman's defense. If there had been no arrest. If the state of Florida had agreed with local Sanford, this would have given the green light for anyone everywhere where this bill has been signed into law. This would have basically made it open seasoned on unarmed, defenseless and innocent fellow Americans. In some cases, judges have already ruled in favor of the shooter when the shooter used their fear of another's person race as the reason they shot the individual.

In many states as long as there are not witnesses to the shooting, and the shooter claims self defense and the use the stand your ground law, that suriving person's word was meant to be taken and no charges filed. This is what was meant to happen in the Zimmerman/Martin case. No witnesses. No proof that the shooting was not in self defense. The burden of proof shifts to the victim, who can't speak because he is dead. Just to CYA in case, find a witness who is also a friend to say they witnessed part of the alleged altercation and the perp goes free. No charge, No investigation into a homicide. Nothing. Zip.

We should all be thankful that Zimmerman was taken off the street before he became a police officer. It seems that was his ultimate goal. With his violent criminal history, he should have never been allowed to legally own a gun in the first place.

April 12, 2012 at 4:40 p.m.
chet123 said...

CHATTA MAN....I WANT YOU TO AFFORD THE PRESIDENT THAT SAME RESPECT AND RIGHT WHEN THE TEA-PARTY SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT HIM....REMEMBER WHEN THE TEA-PARTY WENT TO WASHINGTON STRAPPED WITH GUNS.....DIDNT SEE ERIC HOLDER PLACING THEM UNDER ARREST EITHER....NOR DID HE PLACE JANICE BREWER UNDER ARREST FOR POINTING HER FINGER IN THE PRESIDENT FACE...NOR DID HE PLACE PALIN UNDER ARREST WHEN SHE SUGGEST RIFLE CROSS-HAIR..WHICH ENDED WITH CONGRESS-LADY FROM ARIZONA BEING SHOT IN THE HEAD ALONE WITH A JUDGE AND OTHERS INCLUDING A LITTLE GIRL....HOLDER COULD HAVE ARREST PALIN....

SO HOLDER IS CONSISTENCE....JANICE RENO WOULD HAVE WENT AFTER THAT BUTT

SO CHATTA MAN YOU BE CONSISTENT OK??????

I HATE DOUBLE STANDARD.....I KNOW THIS IS STRANGE FOR YOU....NOT USE TO GETTING A PUSH BACK....BUT BELEIVE ME THERE ARE 10TH OF MILLIONS PEOPLE FEELING THE SAME WAY...THEY HAVE NO PLATFORM AS YOU AND I CHATTA MAN

April 12, 2012 at 4:46 p.m.
chet123 said...

PINKSALMON....YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.....I HAVE HAD HATER ON ONE FORUM SAID IT WAS PUNK HUNTER SEASON(NOW I DONT KNOW WHY HE DIDNT REFER TO HIMSELF AS A PUNK HA HA HA)BUT THIS IS EXAMPLE OF REPUBLICAN POLICY..THEY WANT TO DIVIDE US..THE RICH AND GREEDY WANT TO DIVIDE THIS COUNTRY......

PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT AND THE GOOD OLE BOYS GOING CRAZY....AND THEY ARE ALL IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.....THIS WILL EVENAULLY COME TO A HEAD.....

THE FIRST STEP THAT NEED TO HAPPEN IS GOVERNMENT NATIONALIZING OIL....BIG MONEY IS BEHIND THIS HATE....BIG MONEY OWN THE POLITICIAN.....THIS COUNTRY NEED TO BE BROUGHT BACK TO DEMOCRACY.....

BIG MONEY WAS BEHIND THE LAST WAR THIS COUNTRY HAD ON AMERICAN SOIL....COSTING 600,000 LIVES....THE COTTON COMMERCE HAD WORLD TRADE....IT WAS EQUALVALENT OF TODAY BIG OIL

April 12, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.
MTJohn said...

AndrewLohr said...Constitution, Amendment 5: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury..." How does the prosecutress proceed without a Grand Jury indictment of Mr Zimmerman?

Because she did not bring a charge of murder in the first degree. You really do need to be working from better information sources, Andrew.

April 12, 2012 at 5:03 p.m.
chet123 said...

YOU MAN UP CHATTA MAN.....TELL THE TRUTH...NOT HALF TRUTHS

April 12, 2012 at 5:03 p.m.
chet123 said...

ANDREW WATCHES FOX

April 12, 2012 at 5:06 p.m.
chet123 said...

ANDREW...I HAVE POST YOU ENOUGH TO KNOW YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN MAN...MAYBE A MINISTER.......

MY QUESTION IS YOU KNOW BETTER ANDREW...YOU KNOW BETTER.....WHY DO YOU GET CAUGHT UP IN LIES....YOU ARE A GOOD MAN.....IS CULTURE,TRADITIONAL TEACHING THAT COMPELLING....I DONT UNDERSTAND ANDREW...YOU KNOW BETTER!

April 12, 2012 at 5:10 p.m.
chet123 said...

HERE ARE MY RIGHT-WING BUDDY....THEY SEEM TO HAVE ALOT TO SAY WHEN I'M NOT IN HERE TO FACT CHECK THEM.....

PLEASE DONT HIDE....I WANT TO SEE HOW YOU THINK....I HAVE ALWAYS WANDER WHAT WAS IN THE HEAD OF THE RIGHT-WING THINKER.....VERY INTERESTING....

April 12, 2012 at 5:13 p.m.
PinkSalmon said...

AndrewLohr said...

Constitution, Amendment 5: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury..." How does the prosecutress proceed without a Grand Jury indictment of Mr Zimmerman?

You really are confused, aren't you sweety? Let us try and help you out a little. 1. The charge is neither capitol nor infamous. Zimmerman is charged with 2nd degree murder. That's a far cry from a capitol murder charge nor has he yet been declared infamous (meaning incompetent to be a witness). If you're going to quote the Constitution at the very least first try to understand it.

  1. It's also those states rights you ringwingers have been in favor of for so long.

Andrew said...

OK, liberals, if someone knocked you down and was hitting you, and you had a gun, would you shoot him (especially if he was going for your gun)? In that narrow sense, it sounds like self-defense. How it got that way, maybe not--though I haven't heard any rumor that Mr Zimmerman was targeting Mr Martin in particular or blacks in general

If some stranger cased, stalked, chased then confronted you wouldn't you have every right to defend yourself? This is not to say that Martin even had the opportunity to defend himself. There's only Zimmerman's word. However, if Martin was able to get in a few punches he was in his right to do so.

Baxley, the Republican who co-sponsored the stand your ground bill, has gone on record and stated the law doesn't apply in Zimmerman's favor. As it was Martin who had the right to stand his ground. So has Gov. Jeb Bush gone on record and stated the stand your ground law doesn't apply to Zimmerman. As Zimmerman is the one that was the aggressor and Martin had every right to defend himself.

If there had been no charges filed my bet is it would have become open season in many states that have this stand your ground law. That's why so many nazis hate groups, and other conservative right wingers are coming out in droves in Zimmerman's defense. They were actually seeing themselves in his place. Preparing. Salivating at the mouth in anticipation, likely, if the no charge decision had stuck. That's why they're so upset that Zimmerman has been charged. Other Florida cases are being reviewed where the stand your ground defense has been used and the killer got off without being charged.

April 12, 2012 at 5:18 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Chet, where do I start?

I don't have a problem giving the president whatever respect he deserves. I think everyone should get the respect they deserve, based on their actions.

The one guy that showed up wearing a gun did not make any threats, break any laws or encite a riot. He didn't call for people to suit up, boot up and cross the red sea. Nor did he call for a bounty on anyone's head.

Holder couldn't have arrested Palin, she had no connection to that shooting. There is no question the black panthers broke a federal law placing a bounty on someone's head. Where is Holder and the president on that one? Sorry, not deserving of my respect on that decision, or lack of.

I am consistant, chet. Point out to me where I am not and I will apologize, same on half truths. I don't post crap, I don't make fun of people's names, I just call it like I see it.

If they find Zimmerman guilty, they ought to burn his butt. If they find him innocent, the media (starting with NBC for altering the recorded call) and injecting all the hate in this subject should be held accountable for their part in the aftermath to come.

And, the black, white, pink, orange, or purple panthers, or any organization that has broken the law like they have should be punished, period, I don't care what color they are.

April 12, 2012 at 5:58 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

chatt_man: 5*

April 12, 2012 at 6:07 p.m.
dude_abides said...

George Zimmerman pursued Florida teenager Trayvon Martin as he tried to run home and provoked a confrontation before shooting Martin in the chest during a struggle, prosecutors contended in court documents made public Thursday.

I guess you morons have to start calling the police liars, now.

April 12, 2012 at 7:12 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Chatt_man, I stand corrected. I was obviously wrong in saying that "nobody" is wanting Zimmerman's neck in a noose. There are always going to be those of any skin color who are quick to anger and who think that violence is the only answer. But the vast majority of people, whether black, white, hispanic or whatever, are simply wanting justice to be served and are rightfully outraged at what appears to be a case of a trigger-happpy vigilante who acted rashly, defiantly, and stupidly in taking an innocent life. Like I said, all of the facts are not yet in, but as it stands now, the evidence is much stronger against Zimmerman than it is Trayvon Martin.

Unless, of course, you are like limric and you choose which "facts" you are going to believe. Limric, you are one of those whose judgment is clouded by your inordinate love of guns(I've seen some of your other posts in which your fetish is obvious) and your apparent belief that vigilante justice is the answer. You don't even seem to be aware that you are just as reactionary and emotional on this issue as those you criticize.

April 12, 2012 at 9:27 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Rickaroo, your description of the whole thing is accurate by all that I've seen, I agree. I also will say I went back and looked at my earlier post to you, and it was pretty harsh to somebody I don't know, I guess it was emotion filled.

I am a gun owner, but I'm too new to the site to comment on any others. Except chet, he and I need to talk. I'm working on him, though.

April 12, 2012 at 10:28 p.m.
Oz said...

chet123 said... OH I FORGOT....YOU VALUE A DOG LIFE ABOVE A HUMAN LIFE......THIS IS WHAT YOUR PASTOR TEACHES YOU ISNT IT!...HA HA HA

Rev. Al and Rev. Jesse have taught you to rush to judgement without a trial. If you will look at their track record it's pretty pathetic. They fan the flames, end up looking like fools, quietly leave town, and lay low untiil the public humiliation blows over. The bottom line is you don't know what happened. Nobody on this board knows what happened. We can all assume whatever. The sad part is a 17 year old young man is dead.

The shooter, Mr. Zimmerman, is an Hispanic male registered as a Democrat. You might want to talk about left wing nuts instead of right wing nuts!.

How many 17 year olds have been shot in Chattanooga this year without you mentioning one word? 20 people can witness a shooting in the African American community and the police cannot find one witness. No one wants to see anything.

Give Zimmerman his day court. You may or may not have something to complain about. You don't know the facts. None of us do.

Seriously Chet, I know you are frustrated but let the process run it's course. We all want justice. Sensational journalism and facts in the courtroom are two different things. NBC and ABC have both been caught lying about the facts.

April 13, 2012 at 12:03 a.m.
joneses said...

Hey! Where is Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, the Black outrage, other race baiters, marchers, protestors, NBC, CBS, CNN, NY Times, Huffington Post, Washington Post and the rest of the biased democrat liberal media circus reporting on the Chattanooga Times Free Press article this morning published Friday, April 13, 2012, that states, "3rd shooting in 3 days in Chattanooga". I am sure they could conjure a "white/black label amongst one of the shooters. Why don't they? I will tell you why. They cannot use it for political purposes for race baiting and to spread hate and lies.

April 13, 2012 at 7:53 a.m.
joneses said...

Fact

Blacks commit 7.5 times more violent inter-racial crimes than whites even though the black population is only one-seventh the size of the white population. When these figures are adjusted on a per capita basis, they reveal an extraordinary disparity: blacks are committing more than 50 times the number of violent racial crimes of whites.

According to the latest annual report on murder by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, most inter-racial murders involve black assailants and white victims, with blacks murdering whites at 18 times the rate that whites murder blacks.

April 13, 2012 at 8:06 a.m.
BobMKE said...

OZ & Jonses, great posts. I have investigated 100's of homicides. You get to a scene and no one saw anything, "I was in the restroom,"(along with 20 other people?) Find people dead in the street, either shot or a hit and run, and their pockets are rifled and their jewelry gone. Canvas the area and no one saw anything. Posters here name Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson. I would like to know how posters here rate them against Dr. Martin Luther King? This great man must be pretty sad looking down at what is going on in the cities. Is this the way to honor his memory? I certainly believe that if he had lived this Country would have been so much better off.

April 13, 2012 at 8:43 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Bennett sucks. He is just another bedwetting arm chair quarterback trying to convict a man in the court of public opinion.

We get it Wart, you do not like guns and do not think people should have the right to defend themselves using a gun. You do not know what happened that night and you have no business passing judgement on anyone. Zimmerman's right to a fair hearing under the law is more important than your personal opinions. Let the legal process take care of it and quit with your personal mission to help wreck a guys life you a$$.

April 13, 2012 at 9:04 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

joneses said... "Blacks commit 7.5 times more violent inter-racial crimes than whites even though the black population is only one-seventh the size of the white population. When these figures are adjusted on a per capita basis, they reveal an extraordinary disparity: blacks are committing more than 50 times the number of violent racial crimes of whites. According to the latest annual report on murder by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, most inter-racial murders involve black assailants and white victims, with blacks murdering whites at 18 times the rate that whites murder blacks."

That does not fit the victimization story the left is trying to peddle. You are not supposed to share facts such as those.

April 13, 2012 at 9:09 a.m.
jjmez said...

BobMKE said.. Posters here name Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson. I would like to know how posters here rate them against Dr. Martin Luther King? This great man

Today you speak highly of Dr. King. But in his lifetime, it was people like you who despise Sharpton and Jackson that hated Dr. King even more. Stop the hypocrisy and fake love for Dr. King.

Then there was what the haters tried to do to that poor woman, Rosa Parks, reputation. Spreading false rumors that she was a wh##e who slept with all the male members of the NAACP. {rolling my eyes} %<

April 13, 2012 at 9:19 a.m.
MTJohn said...

joneses said...

Fact

Blacks commit 7.5 times more violent inter-racial crimes than whites even though the black population is only one-seventh the size of the white population. When these figures are adjusted on a per capita basis, they reveal an extraordinary disparity: blacks are committing more than 50 times the number of violent racial crimes of whites.

I'd wager that, were you to do a multivariate analysis of those data, you would find a stronger correlation with socio-economic factors than with race.

April 13, 2012 at 9:27 a.m.
joneses said...

Bobmke

Dr. Martin Luther King was a great man and he would be ashamed if he were here now to witness how the likes of race baiter Jesse Jackson and the lying race baiter Al Sharpton have butchered his message of personal responsibility and integrity. Dr. Martin Luther King preached for the black population to rise up, take personal responsibility, integrity, hard work, being responsible fathers and mothers, and to get an education. He preached that all this could be accomplished through hard work and no one could keep a man down but the man himself. If anyone noticed this black on black crime has increased when the race baiter Jesses Jackson and Al Sharpton appointed themselves as the leaders of the black population. The democrats continue to support these two race baiters black victim agenda through payments to these two pathetic excuse for human beings. If Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are doing such a good job then why is black on black crime and black on white crime still escalating? The black population needs to wake up to the democratic party and realize they are the racist and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are selling them out just like the tribal leaders in Africa sold them out to the slave traders hundreds of years ago. It is ashamed how the black people are being tricked into believing the democratic party has their best interest in mind. Remember the democrats are the ones that did not support Lyndon B. Johnson's Civil Rights Bill. The Republicans in the house and senate are the ones who were responsible for getting it passed. Fact.

April 13, 2012 at 9:27 a.m.
BobMKE said...

jimez, Stop the hypocrisy and fake love for Dr. King.

How dare you say that to me without knowing who I am or how I feel about my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. As a Christian if I hate anyone then I hate Jesus. I have listen to Dr. King's speeches and tried to live by them. It didn't matter to me who it came from. Listen to his words. They are from a great Cristian man who put the Lord in the center of his life. A question to you and other's on this site; If people tried to live a life like Jesus or Dr. King what would this Country be like? WWJD (What would Jesus Do)

April 13, 2012 at 9:34 a.m.
joneses said...

BobMKE

The liberals have their typical response. They ignore the facts and attempt to twist what like minded people like us say into all the problems facing the black populace are the faults of the whites. By doing this they take away personal responsibility from the blacks. It is liberal democrat racism at it's finest. This white black president is playing his part in racism towards blacks by not condemning Jesse Jackson's, Al Sharpton's race baiting techniques. This white black president we have did not even condemn the racist Black Panthers for voter intimidation and putting a warrant out on the hispanic Zimmerman. They are that pathetic.

April 13, 2012 at 9:56 a.m.
MTJohn said...

BobMKE said...A question to you and other's on this site; If people tried to live a life like Jesus or Dr. King what would this Country be like? WWJD (What would Jesus Do)

It would not look "Republican". (it wouldn't look Democrat, either) We would not need government, because everyone would be putting the interests of others ahead of their own interests. We would not have income disparity. We would not have significant segments of our society living in inner-city slums. etc. etc.

April 13, 2012 at 10:23 a.m.
limric said...

As I was saying. See post from yesterday @ 10:11 a.m

A short interview with Alan Dershowitz…on the lefty talking head show ‘Hardball ‘no less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4fr5QwG63M

If you don’t know who Dershowitz is, “he is one of the most distinguished defenders of individual rights and the best-known criminal lawyer in the world"

April 13, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BobMke said: “They ignore the facts and attempt to twist what like minded people like us say into all the problems facing the black populace are the faults of the whites. By doing this they take away personal responsibility from the blacks.”

From your non-biased Christian perspective, any ideas on why African American youth appear to be treated differently by the Juvenile Justice System, BobMke?

ASSAULTS - "According to the Center on Disease Control's annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, African Americans report being in a physical fight at a similar rate (36.5%, versus 32.5% for whites), but were arrested for aggravated assault at a rate nearly three times that of whites (137 per 100,000, versus 48 per 100,000)."

DRUGS - "According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, among youths aged 12 to 17, the rate of current illicit drug use was 11.1 % among whites, and 9.3% among African Americans. In a previous year, the same survey found that white youth aged 12 to17 are more than a third more likely to have sold drugs than African American youth. The Monitoring the Future Survey of high school seniors shows that white students annually use cocaine at 4.6 times the rate of African Americans students, use crack cocaine at 1.5 times the rate of African Americans students, and use heroin at the same rate of African Americans students, and that white youth report annual use of marijuana at a rate 46% higher than African American youth. However African American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate (African American 314 per 100,000, white 175 per 100,000) times that of whites, and African American youth represent nearly half (48%) of all the youth incarcerated for a drug offense in the juvenile justice system."

WEAPONS - "According to the Center on Disease Control's annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, in 2001 whites and African Americans reported similar rates of carrying a weapon (whites 17.9%, African Americans 15.2%), and similar rates of carrying a gun (whites 5.5%, and African Americans, 6.5%). African American youth represent 32% of all weapons arrests, and were arrested for weapons offenses at a rate twice that of whites (69 per 100,000, versus 30 per 100,000)."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/van-jones/are-blacks-a-criminal-rac_b_8398.html

April 13, 2012 at 11:05 a.m.
jesse said...

i think i will wait and see what the jury decides! no one knows what really went down except george and trey!

all the rheortic on here sounds like hysteria to me! i don't KNOW what went down so i'm gonna wait and see what comes up!!

April 13, 2012 at 11:22 a.m.
potcat said...

How could anyone not know Dershowitz, O.J. ring any bells? The man has wrote so many useless books and is on any tv show that will have him on a slow day, reminds me of my favorite thing, the MUTE button.

If your interested in some excellent writting by a Lawyer, Vincent Bugliosi "Outrage: The Five Reasons Why O.J. Simpson Got Away With Murder" and the Bush-Gore election book Bugliosi wrote will put it in perfect laymans terms instead of a Dershowitz thousand page munble jumble BS.

April 13, 2012 at 11:36 a.m.
potcat said...

jesse,how could any person on this planet say no one knows what really went down, are you really that stupid?

April 13, 2012 at 11:42 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

It certainly seems the you, Potcat, know (from your previous postings) EVERYTHING that went down. So please grace the nation with your enlightenment and save us all from a protracted and costly trial.

April 13, 2012 at 11:56 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

The only ones who think the insane SYG law is a sensible law are the wannabe vigilantes themselves who are begging for an excuse to strap on their guns and holsters and play cowboy. It's almost always evident when someone is acting in self defense and no one will be charged with a crime when that is clearly the case. We do not need yet another law to make it okay to shoot and kill people. Besides, the SYG law goes way beyond self-defense and allows for people to actually become the aggressors in a situation and then still claim self-defense. It's utter nonsense. It's a law that makes the the paranoid, the gun fetishists, and the NRA giddy with delight and only increases the violence of an already violent society.

April 13, 2012 at 12:38 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Rickaroo said... "The only ones who think the insane SYG law is a sensible law are the wannabe vigilantes themselves who are begging for an excuse to strap on their guns and holsters and play cowboy."

Let me make sure I have this right. You think it would make more sense if people did not have a clearly defined right to defend themselves when confronted with deadly force?

April 13, 2012 at 1:22 p.m.
ibshame said...

"joneses said... Bobmke

Dr. Martin Luther King was a great man and he would be ashamed if he were here now to witness how the likes of race baiter Jesse Jackson and the lying race baiter Al Sharpton have butchered his message of personal responsibility and integrity. Dr. Martin Luther King preached for the black population to rise up, take personal responsibility, integrity, hard work, being responsible fathers and mothers, and to get an education."

You have the unmitigated gall and audacity to speak of Dr. King when you spend your time on most days on this very forum with your rabid, foaming at the mouth, racist, diatribe on President Barack Obama. The one person Dr. King would be most proud of had he lived to see the result of his sacrifice.

April 13, 2012 at 1:26 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Mt. John, mountainlaurel, and nooga

We have a large sub-culture of drugs, gang culture, absent fathers, lack of parent control, victimhood, no incentive to obtain a great education, parents not getting involved in their children’s education/cooperation with teachers, not knowing the dignity of hard work/work ethic (the human nature of taking the path of least resistance) etc. All actions have reactions. All actions have consequences. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. All of above cause our inner cites to become slums. Remember that for decades liberal Democrats have run the vast majority of our larger cities. Money (11 Trillion plus) has been thrown at them since the Great Society. (1965) So how is this worked out? 11 Trillion, Liberal administrators? All we have done is destroyed inner city families, created another subculture of dependence on big government or nanny State, and the liberals embrace this because they now have a permanent voting block. Over 50% now have no skin in the game. They have no interest in the looming great debt. When the number gets higher, the game is over. Then they will get upset, riot, and wondering what the hell happened. There has never been the utopia of socialism that have ever worked in the history of the world and it will not work here. For nooga, (who thinks I’m stupid and nooga then plays the, “best defense is an offense routine” when he has nothing to articulate his viewpoint) this means it is over when there are more people in the cart then are pulling the cart.

April 13, 2012 at 1:37 p.m.
BobMKE said...

ibshame,

I call our President, "Oblamea" because that is what he does. Are you saying that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would have been proud of a man who whats to turn this Country into a Socialist State? A President who wants to create a dependant sub-culture so the Socialists have a permanant voting block? I really doubt that. Dr. King would not have wanted that for anyone in America.

April 13, 2012 at 1:48 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

BRP...You clearly lack basic reading comprehension skills. We already are allowed to protect ourselves in cases of self defense. I said that and you already know that. We are even within our rights to take the life of our assailant, if we feel that our own life is in danger. You know this. So why are you acting like this SYG law is so essential for our protection? It is impossible to carry on civil discussions with people like you who live in such a bizarro world of your own making.

April 13, 2012 at 1:49 p.m.
ibshame said...

"joneses said... Bobmke Dr. Martin Luther King preached for the black population to rise up, take personal responsibility, integrity, hard work, being responsible fathers and mothers, and to get an education."

You write the above today and just the other day you were writing the trash below. Your kind of hypocrisy is pathetic. No doubt if Dr. King was alive today you would trash him just as you have President Obama who epitomizes all the things you claim Dr. King would want for the "Black Population."

"joneses said... .... spending almost $1,000,000.00 to hide his college records and past, a fake birth certificate, his father being a communist, his twisted and sordid upbringing, his indonesian muslim transgender prostitute nanny, his communist grand parents and life long friends, his denied muslim faith, his racist church of 20 years, the new black panthers, his association with known weather underground admitted communist Bill Ayers, his wifes hatred of our flag and shame for this country, his arrogance and hypocrisy... obamas the best president ever, just ask him or any of his brain washed followers. Bennetts cartoons are a bigger joke than Barry Soetoro aka Hussien Obama, aka, obastard. What is really pathetic and disgusting is you liberals are proud of this fool of a president."

April 13, 2012 at 1:53 p.m.
MTJohn said...

BobMKE said...We have a large sub-culture of drugs, gang culture, absent fathers, lack of parent control, victimhood, no incentive to obtain a great education, parents not getting involved in their children’s education/cooperation with teachers, not knowing the dignity of hard work/work ethic (the human nature of taking the path of least resistance) etc. All actions have reactions.

Indeed we do. But, what does that have to do with your previous question and my response to it? WWJD? First, He would love the folks caught up in that destructive sub-culture. Second, He would ask what was the "action/reaction" that caused that sub-culture to develop. Third, He would challenge the societal flaws that caused the problem in the first place. Only then, fourth, would He challenge those trapped in the sub-culture to more responsible living.

Now, back to your original question, WWJD and how do we model it? As Christians, we are called to love God and to love our neighbors as ourselves. In that calling, everyone who needs our love is our neighbor - including, especially, those whom we have the greatest difficulty loving. We live out of that model because God first loved us - irrespective of whether our neighbors are living out of that same model. If our social programs are not working - let's fix the programs. Simply terminating the programs and writing off the people whom those programs are supposed to serve is definitely NOT what Jesus would do! If it were, He would have written you and me both off a long time ago. But, God shows His love for us in this - while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

BobMKE said...I call our President, "Oblamea" because that is what he does.

Is that what Jesus would do?? I don't think so.

April 13, 2012 at 2 p.m.
ibshame said...

"BobMKE said... ibshame, I call our President, "Oblamea" because that is what he does. Are you saying that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would have been proud of a man who whats to turn this Country into a Socialist State? A President who wants to create a dependant sub-culture so the Socialists have a permanant voting block? I really doubt that. Dr. King would not have wanted that for anyone in America."

All of that so-called Socialist garbage you right wingers talk is nothing more than BS. You want to know what I really think? President Barack Obama has been the best MODERATE REPUBLICAN to be elected. He's no Socialist and he's done nothing except the very same thing MITT ROMNEY did in Masschusetts. NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. It's rightwingers like yourself who have attempted to paint him as some kind of raging LIBERAL. In my book he hasn't done nearly enough but I will vote for him again because the alternative to him is even worse.

This country can't afford another administration of morons like W. running it. Blood thirsty, power grabbing, greedy morons who thought only of what was in it for them and not the rest of the country. Mitt Romney in the long run has the potential to be another W.

As for Dr. King it is highly unlikely you have even a clue as to what he would have wanted had he lived.

April 13, 2012 at 2:04 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Rickaroo said... “ We already are allowed to protect ourselves in cases of self defense. We are even within our rights to take the life of our assailant, if we feel that our own life is in danger. You know this. So why are you acting like this SYG law is so essential for our protection? “

Tell me then, Rickaroo, what part of Stand Your Ground do you find to be “insane”? As far as I can tell, it only reaffirms the right “we already are allowed to protect ourselves in cases of self defense”. If the law is just an affirmation of a right you believe in then why do you call it insane?

April 13, 2012 at 3:11 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Mt John

Jesus loves everyone as we all should. Do people let us down? Yes, all of the time. My question to you and others is; Would Jesus teach the people to fish or would he fish for them all of the time for as long as they are on this earth?

April 13, 2012 at 3:31 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Limric

In all fairness, Dershowitz's reasoning doesn't make much sense to me. I believe the charges and rationale presented by Florida’s Special Prosecutor are fair, reasonable, and responsible. It’s something that should have occurred much sooner. I say this for a variety of reasons:

We know from the 911 tapes that someone was calling for help. George Zimmerman says the "cries for help" were his, but the mother of Trayvon Martin has stated that she recognized the "cries for help" as being the voice was of her son. Two forensic voice identification experts have analyzed the 911 recordings of the "cries for help," and came to the conclusion that it was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

A witness heard Trayvon Martin ask George Zimmerman why he was following him, which under the circumstances seems like a reasonable question to me. The witness also heard Zimmerman’s response, which under the circumstances seems like a cocky and confrontational response to me. A less confrontational and more reasonable response would have been for George Zimmerman to identify himself as "Captain" of their Neighborhood Watch program, and alert Trayvon Martin that the police were on their way. If George Zimmerman had done this, I think it’s highly probable this tragedy would not have occurred.

George Zimmerman cites the State of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law as the basis of his claim to self-defense, but the creators of the "Stand Your Ground" statute and the former Governor, Jeb Bush, who signed the law have all stated that there's nothing in this statute that authorizes a person to pursue or confront other people. They also point out that, if anything, the law would have protected the victim in this case.

George Zimmerman had Neighborhood Watch training. He was very much aware that he was not suppose to patrol, not suppose to carry weapons, and not suppose to get physically involved with any reported activity or apprehension of any “suspicious” persons. Clearly, George Zimmerman opted to ignore all of the above rules, which suggests that Zimmerman is a bit incline to be reckless and irresponsible. In additon to ignoring law enforcement’s safety directive that evening, there there have been other situations involving physical force where Zimmerman has acting inappropriately. He had been previously fired from a job due to his inappropriate use of force and had been arrested for an inappropriate assault on a police officer.

April 13, 2012 at 3:54 p.m.
potcat said...

A few Facts for the Rat...

A unarmed 17yr. old black kid talking to his girlfriend on the phone walking to his dad's eating a bag of skittles and drinking a ice tea was stalked and went down screaming for help while being shot DEAD by a wannaBe cop triggerHappy weasel, after being told to stop following the kid and "FACT" said he was tired of these punk(&%$#$@4 getting by with sh.. and proceded to "MURDER" shoot Trayvon Martin to death with his 9mil.FACT...

There's more FACTs i could enlighten you with about the Coward that Murdered Trayvon, but first you are in dire need of a hearing Aide and Soul Transplant!!!

April 13, 2012 at 4:02 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BobMKE

I can’t see that you made any effort in your 1:37 PM post to address my question, which was about the possible race/ethnicity discrepancies within our Juvenile Justice System. Again, from a non-biasd Christian perspective, why do you think African American youth appear to be treated differently by our Juvenile Justic System?

ASSAULTS - According to the Center on Disease Control's annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, African Americans report being in a physical fight at a similar rate (36.5%, versus 32.5% for whites), but were arrested for aggravated assault at a rate nearly three times that of whites (137 per 100,000, versus 48 per 100,000)

DRUGS - According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, among youths aged 12 to 17, the rate of current illicit drug use was 11.1 % among whites, and 9.3% among African Americans. In a previous year, the same survey found that white youth aged 12 to17 are more than a third more likely to have sold drugs than African American youth. The Monitoring the Future Survey of high school seniors shows that white students annually use cocaine at 4.6 times the rate of African Americans students, use crack cocaine at 1.5 times the rate of African Americans students, and use heroin at the same rate of African Americans students, and that white youth report annual use of marijuana at a rate 46% higher than African American youth. However African American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate (African American 314 per 100,000, white 175 per 100,000) times that of whites, and African American youth represent nearly half (48%) of all the youth incarcerated for a drug offense in the juvenile justice system.

WEAPONS - According to the Center on Disease Control's annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, in 2001 whites and African Americans reported similar rates of carrying a weapon (whites 17.9%, African Americans 15.2%), and similar rates of carrying a gun (whites 5.5%, and African Americans, 6.5%). African American youth represent 32% of all weapons arrests, and were arrested for weapons offenses at a rate twice that of whites (69 per 100,000, versus 30 per 100,000).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/van-jones/are-blacks-a-criminal-rac_b_8398.html

April 13, 2012 at 4:48 p.m.
MTJohn said...

BobMKE said...Jesus loves everyone as we all should. Do people let us down? Yes, all of the time. My question to you and others is; Would Jesus teach the people to fish or would he fish for them all of the time for as long as they are on this earth?

BobMKE - I believe that Jesus would teach the people to fish and I think that ought to be the model for our social services programs. I also think Jesus would understand that teaching people to fish requires an investment on society's part - that it requires considerably more than giving someone a cane pole, a piece of string, a couple of rusty hooks, a can of worms and telling them to go fish.

I don't think Jesus would throw anyone out of the boat, which sounds like the solution most conservatives would advocate.

April 13, 2012 at 5:03 p.m.
MTJohn said...

mountainlaurel said..."George Zimmerman had Neighborhood Watch training."

I'm not sure that it has been established that he had training. And, I seem to recall a report that the program in his neighborhood was not chartered with Neighborhood Watch - it was more like a self-appointed group of which he was the self-appointed leader.

April 13, 2012 at 5:10 p.m.
joneses said...

ibshame,

You are correct I said all that and it is fact. Stating the fact is not racist. Saying Obama is a failure of a president is not racist. It is stupid dor pathetic fools like you that want to hide behind the race the race card. I do not dislike obama because he is half black. I dislike him because he is a pathological liar and a failure of a president. get your head out of your butt and stop saying people are racist because they disagree with someone who happens to be half black or 100% black. if I disagree with the Black Panthers intimidating voters that is not racist either. I am really perplexed I have to explain this to a dumb ass like you.

Obama a moderate Republican? You are really that stupid aren't you? Republicans do not want socialized health care. Republicans are not the ones with the hate speech promoting racism and class warfare. You are stupid.

April 13, 2012 at 5:17 p.m.
joneses said...

It is hilarious to listen to this pathetic president say he is like President Reagan and to read where ibshame says obama is a moderate Republican. Do you see what is happening here? These dummycrats are ashamed of being dummycrats so they are trying a last ditch effort to get people to think they are conservative. Amazing how pathetic these dummycrats are.

April 13, 2012 at 5:21 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Mt. John I agree with you. I don't care for Hillary Clinton but it does take a village. We have to have honest dedicated mentors and business owners to take our youth under their wings to teach them how to be a responsible person. There are ethnic citizens who have come here to experience the Americian dream of freedom. The didn't and don't come here for a handout. They worked hard, valued an education, started a business, and then brought others here. They then took them under their wings, got them jobs in their business, restaurant, showed them how to suceed. Then those people went out on their own and the process starts all over again, generation after generation. Some how we have to develope this kind mentoring in our cities.

ML, I'd have to look into your stats. My opinon would be that kids that have money don't have to steal to buy their drugs. Again, parents who are too busy working to buy material things and don't monitor their children. In the inner cities guns are part of the sub-culture, gang warfare, gang members shooting other members, kids knowing where the drugs are sold, rob the dealers, and people get shot. These types of crimes are not committed much in other parts of city. ML, you are the Police Chief. Where are you going to put your man power? The poor honest people that have to live in these areas need the protection more than the rest of the city. Their children are getting shot and the bullets are flying and hitting innocent people and little kids. I worked the Hold Up Squad for 20 years and know that the victims can see the race of the suspect. With about 4,500 robberies, 89% are committed by African Americans against 75% of their fellow race. That's 20 years of Statistics.

April 13, 2012 at 5:38 p.m.
MickeyRat said...

So Potcat, should we just skip the formalities and just go out back and find a nice tree? The tenor of your post reminds me of the witch scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

April 13, 2012 at 5:45 p.m.
MTJohn said...

BobMKE said..."There are ethnic citizens who have come here to experience the Americian dream of freedom. The didn't and don't come here for a handout."

Fine. So, what do we do about our ethnic citizens who are the descendents of the people from whom our ancestors stole this land? What about our ethnic citizens who are the descendents of people who were brought here as slaves? What do we do about our citizens who are not taken under the wing of a mentor in the private sector? What do we do about our citizens who lack the basic education necessary to be effective trainees?

If you are serious about developing a program for our inner cities, you might want to read Bill Moyer's inverview with David Simon - the executive producer of The Wire (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04172009/profile.html). He makes a pretty compelling argument that the inner cities are ghettos created not by the residents but by the rest of society because it is cheaper to confine the underclass to the ghettos than to make the investment necessary to make them functional members of the rest of society.

If the United States is the land of equal opportunity for all of our citizens, those of us who are functional members of society have a duty to those who are not yet functional member of society to ensure that we really are the land of equal opportunity. I have seen zero indication that this kind of thinking is a plank - not even a splinter - in the Republican platform.

April 13, 2012 at 5:47 p.m.
rick1 said...

Mnt Laurel said In all fairness, Dershowitz's reasoning doesn't make much sense to me. I believe the charges and rationale presented by Florida’s Special Prosecutor are fair, reasonable, and responsible. It’s something that should have occurred much sooner. I say this for a variety of reasons:

Here is a copy of probable cause affidavit for the charge of 2nd degree murder. http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2012-04/69353440.pdf

Here are the elements that must be met to convict someone of 2nd degree murder in Florida:

"The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual."

Please show me where there is anything in the probable cause avidavit to imply Zimmerman suffered from a depraved mind.

April 13, 2012 at 5:56 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

MTJohn

According to Wikipedia, the homeowners in Zimmerman’s community did meet with a Neighborhood Watch organizer for the Sanford Police Department. As a result of this meeting, the homeowners association organized a program and Zimmerman was appointed coordinator. As to the training details, this is some of the info from Wikipedia:

“Sanford Police volunteer program coordinator Wendy Dorival told The Miami Herald she met Zimmerman in September 2011 at a community neighborhood watch presentation. Dorival stated she gave a warning in regard to vigilante behavior at that meeting: "I said, 'If it's someone you don't recognize, call us. We'll figure it out. Observe from a safe location.' There's even a slide about not being vigilante police. I don't know how many more times I can repeat it."

April 13, 2012 at 6:01 p.m.
rick1 said...

Did not use spell check and misspelled affidavit.

Also, I ment to post please show me where there is anything in the probable cause affidavit to imply Zimmerman suffered from a depraved mind regardless of human life, as the statute requires.

April 13, 2012 at 6:02 p.m.
MTJohn said...

MountainLaurel -

That wiki article mentions that Zimmerman was the only person to volunteer, which would be consistent with the report that I had remembered. The wiki article mentions a neighborhood watch presentation but it does not mention that the neighborhood's program was chartered.

April 13, 2012 at 6:08 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

MTJohn,

I think you're correct about the Neighborhood Watch charter issue. Although I did see a photograph of a Neighborhood Watch sign by the gate entrance into Zimmerman's community, I don't the group is actually a charter member of the official Neighborhood Watch Program.

April 13, 2012 at 7:15 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Rick1

I think you are forgetting this tragic event began with Zimmerman recklessly stalking Trayvon Martin with a loaded weapon, Rick1. And if the prosecutor is able to prove that those “cries for help” on the 911 recording belonged to Trayvon Martin, I don’t think the prosecutor will have any difficulty demonstrating to a jury why Zimmerman suffers from a depraved mind. I believe most reasonable people will agree that to ignore the desperate “cries for help” of an unarmed kid is inhumane, and to later claim ownership of the victim’s cries after you've killed him is perverted.

April 13, 2012 at 7:17 p.m.
dude_abides said...

tu_ you're wasting time on the road to Tangentia. I am waiting anxiously for your prognostications regarding the outcome of this case. Since you said that murder 2 was a foregone conclusion, I figure you can at least throw down some info on legal maneuvers we will definitely see in the coming weeks. Please be specific, so that those of us who don't channel future law won't find ourselves mired in number tu.

April 13, 2012 at 7:20 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

The real story about the Martin/Zimmerman circus.

http://townhall.com/political-cartoons/michaelramirez/2012/03/31/97965

April 13, 2012 at 7:50 p.m.
rick1 said...

MntLaurel, I did not read anywhere in the Probable Cause Affidavit where it says Zimmerman "Recklessly Stalked" Treyvon Martin.

You stated "I believe most reasonable people will agree that to ignore the desperate “cries for help” of an unarmed kid is inhumane, and to later claim ownership of the victim’s cries after you've killed him is perverted."

It is being reported there are witnesses who reportedly say it was Zimmerman who was on his back with Martin on top of him and Zimmerman was the one calling for help. I also find it interesting the Special Prosecutor did not mention Zimmerman's injuries in the Affidavit.

The Seminole County State Attorney did not file charges and now the Special Prosecutor is charging Zimmerman with the highest charge possible under these circumstances. That is a wide gap when she could have filed charges of manslaughter or 3rd degree murder.

I believe the Special Prosecutor did not take the case to the Grand Jury because she knew they would not indict Zimmerman for 2nd degree murder. She skips the Grand Jury, files 2nd degree murder and is hoping the judge throws out the charge because it does not meet the required elements. This will take the heat off of her and she can hide behind the Judges decision and re-file a lesser charge.

If you do not think politics doesn't play a factor in cases just think back to the D/A in North Carloina with the Duke LaCrosse Players.

April 13, 2012 at 8:28 p.m.
MTJohn said...

rick1 said... "I believe the Special Prosecutor did not take the case to the Grand Jury because she knew they would not indict Zimmerman for 2nd degree murder."

She didn't take it to a Grand Jury because she did not file a charge of murder in the first degree. I don't know Florida law but I suspect that Zimmerman had the option of requesting a Grand Jury and didn't. Zimmerman also has the option of filing a motion for immunity from prosecution based on stand-your-gran and I suspect that he will. And, if he does, you will get an opportunity to find out whether the judge agrees with your assessment.

It is my guess that the special prosecutor filed a charge of murder 2 to give herself leverage to negotiate a plea bargain. It's also my guess that she filed other documents with the court that are not yet available to the public. And, if that is the case, many words with little substance have been spoken regarding the document that has been released.

April 13, 2012 at 8:43 p.m.
rick1 said...

MTJohn, In State of Florida the Grand Jury can be used be used for high profile investigations.

The State Attorney is the one who uses the Grand Jury as a function to hear witnesses to determine whether the person, or persons, should be charged and brought to trial. So Zimmerman would not call for a Grand Jury hearing.

I don't think there will be a plea bargain in this case. I'm curious as to why the Special Prosecutor did not mention the injuries to Zimmerman, (the cut on his head, the broken nose)the grass stains on his back, which were documented in the police report. If these injuries did not occur why wouldn't she have challenged the police report in her Probable Cause Affidavit. I believe Zimmerman is going to use self defense.

April 13, 2012 at 9:20 p.m.
rick1 said...

MTJohn, here is the link containing the police report, which documents the injuries the officers observed on Zimmerman.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86948628/Trayvon-Martin-Police-Report

April 13, 2012 at 9:32 p.m.
jjmez said...

BobMKE said... jimez, Stop the hypocrisy and fake love for Dr. King. How dare you say that to me without knowing who I am or how I feel about my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. As a Christian if I hate anyone then I hate Jesus

Stop being such a drama queen! You'd turned on Jesus Christ, because Jesus Christ would have been right up there with Sharpton, Jackson and all the protesters shouting the loudest against the injustice and Sanford police attempts to cover up a homicide. You're pathetic!

April 13, 2012 at 9:37 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Rick1 - the appropriate place to try this case is the Florida district court. Let's let that process work. As I said, Zimmerman has the option to file a motion for dismissal, based on immunity pursuant to stand-your-ground. The police report will be relevant when that motion is heard or when the case goes to trial, assuming the motion is filed and denied.

April 13, 2012 at 9:40 p.m.
jjmez said...

rick1 said... MTJohn, here is the link containing the police report, which documents the injuries the officers observed on Zimmerman. http://www.scribd.com/doc/86948628/Trayvon-Martin-Police-Report

But is it the original report?

Even if Martin was able to get in a few good punches, he would have still been defending himself against a potential criminal who was stalking him. Zimmerman remains the aggressor in all this. He remains solely responsible for the outcome. It's not different than if a kidnapper, abductor, robber cased, stalked, followed then confronted you. You'd have the right to defend yourself. Whatever the outcome, even if you got the upper hand and beat or even killed the perp, you'd be in your rights to do so. Martin was in his right to kick Zimmerman's @ss! If Martin was able to get a few good punches in before being killed, his family should be given a medal of bravery in his memory. Zimmerman was the villain here, regardless.

April 13, 2012 at 9:45 p.m.
rick1 said...

jjmez, the reports from the first officers on the scene will be part of the original report.

How do you know Zimmerman was the aggressor? The Special Prosecutor and her investigators did not even say Zimmerman was the aggresor. The Affidavit says Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued. Notice it did not say who strated the struggle.

Maybe Zimmerman was walking away and Martin jumped him from behind. If you look at the affidavit it is very weak.

April 13, 2012 at 11:47 p.m.
facyspacy said...

Went to the preds game tonite.... A girl standing outside bridgestone arena holding a sign that says "justice for trayvon". I guess that girl was there that night and she saw exactly what happened. Truth is no one knows what happened that night. And until the trial is concluded, no one will know the truth.

April 14, 2012 at 12:12 a.m.
MTJohn said...

T.Q. - you did a pretty good job of explaining why the special prosecutor had good reason to question Zimmerman's claim to self-defense. Don't forget that Zimmerman is the one who brought his gun to a fist fight. Zimmerman is the one who killed the only witness, other than himself, to the event.

Given your acuity, perhaps you can also explain how it was possible for Zimmerman - who apparently carried his weapon in his waistband - was able to retrieve his weapon while Martin was on top of him and beating him so severely that Zimmerman could legally claim that he was in danger of death or great bodily injury.

It seems to me that, even if the rest of Zimmerman's account is accurate, two critical missing pieces are 1) when did Zimmerman draw his gun? 2)why would the person with the gun and, obviously, the willingness to use it, but compelled to yell "help"?

April 14, 2012 at 7:24 a.m.
dude_abides said...

"if Obozo is reelected then his racist A.G. will make sure “Z” does some time no matter the evidence. If Romney wins then it will depend on if he wants to do some pandering" -tu_quoque

Had to recheck the author when I read this bit. Looks like you had joneses over for some collaborative writing! So, if Zimmerman doesn't walk free, it's a case of Presidential racism or pandering! What a pathetic post. You should post earlier in your drinking cycle.

April 14, 2012 at 8:31 a.m.
Lr103 said...

facyspacy said... Went to the preds game tonite.... A girl standing outside bridgestone arena holding a sign that says "justice for trayvon". I guess that girl was there that night and she saw exactly what happened. Truth is no one knows what happened that night. And until the trial is concluded, no one will know the truth.

One of several things we all do know from Zimmerman's own admissions according to those 911 tapes are: 1. Zimmerman profiled 2. cased 3. stalked 4. followed (although advised not to) 5. Then confronted Trayvon. 6. Zimmerman was the apparent aggressor in all this. 7. As such, as the predator criminal kidnapper, abductor, child molester would profile, case, stalk, follow, confront a potential victim Zimmerman is soley responsible for his actions, and therefore soley responsible for the outcome. It's irrelevant if Trayvon fought back. He was fighting off what he preceved to be an potential criminal about to do him harm. You, I or anyone would have fought for our lives under the same circumstances. There's no rocket science required here. It's common sense.

April 14, 2012 at 8:44 a.m.
Lr103 said...

tu_said... Let’s assume that Zimmerman’s following Martin provoked Martin to use force on him so at that point Zimmerman would have had no legal right to “Stand His Ground”. However after Martin got on top of him to continue the attack and “Z” started calling for help, as a witness said happened, then at that point the situation would change dramatically.

Really desperately reaching aren't we? Do you realize in a court of law, if you'd used the above lame reasoning, as a defense attorney, defending your client, you'd have already buried him? You're still describing Zimmerman as the aggressor. We can all assume you haven't kept up to date either. Those screams heard were described by a witness as coming from a much younger voice. Two voice experts have stated the screams heard on the tape are not Zimmermans. As they have a living Zimmerman voice to compare them to. The officer interviewing the witness corrected her when she told him the voice was that of a child. He told her, "NO that was Zimmerman calling for help." dah! checkmate.

You're doing exactly what you're advising others shouldn't do. You're prejudging in Zimmerman's favor based on your desire that he comes out the victor. Why? the overwhelming support for an obvious criminal with a violent criminal history? Unless, of course, you're character, belief system and sense of values are more like his than you're willing to admit? Even to yourself? hmmmmmmmmmmm INTERESTING!!*

April 14, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
Lr103 said...

rick1 said... Maybe Zimmerman was walking away and Martin jumped him from behind. If you look at the affidavit it is very weak

And maybe he wasn't walking away. And if you look at all the defenders of Zimmerman making excuses for him, they're even weaker.

Let's just say for the sake of yours and others twisted belief system, that Martin did get in a few good punches before he was killed. That still doesn't nullify the fact that Zimmerman was the aggressor. Baxley, the Republican who co-sponsored the stand your ground bill and Gov. Jeb Bush, who signed it into law in 2005, have already stated that it was Martin who was protected under the law. Not Zimmerman! As Zimmerman is the obvious aggressor. It wouldn't have mattered if Martin had beaten the crap out of Zimmerman. Martin had a right to stand his ground and defend himself.

April 14, 2012 at 9:06 a.m.
jjmez said...

From yahoo news:

"Supporters such as former Republican senator Durell Peaden and Rep. Dennis Baxley, who co-sponsored the bill, or former Florida governor Jeb Bush, who signed the bill into law, have said Zimmerman lost his right to this defense when he sought out Martin. Bush stated that "Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn't mean chase after somebody who's turned their back."

"But since the law may be confusing to enforcement—the controversy blew up when Sanford police declined to make an arrest—it has bolstered critics ranging from State Senator Chris Smith of Fort Lauderdale to New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg to call for widespread reform. If self-defense is sufficient, they argue, "stand your ground" may, literally, be legislative overkill."

April 14, 2012 at 10:29 a.m.
rick1 said...

LR103 said "That still doesn't nullify the fact that Zimmerman was the aggressor."

Please show me where it says in the Affidavit filed by the Special Prosecutor that says Zimmerman was the accusor? It says Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued. Confronting someone is not a crime and as I posted earlier we do not know who started the struggle that ensued as stated in the affidavit.

You already have Zimmerman convicted before this case has even gone to trial. Read the information the Special Prosecutor filed with the court for the charge of 2nd degree murder. No where does it say Zimmerman was stalking, or was the aggressor as people have posted. We need to let the trial (if there is one) sort this out.

April 14, 2012 at 11:05 a.m.
rick1 said...

LR103: Really desperately reaching aren't we? Do you realize in a court of law, if you'd used the above lame reasoning, as a defense attorney, defending your client, you'd have already buried him? You're still describing Zimmerman as the aggressor.

Are you a criminal defense attorney or prosecutor to be qualified to make such a statement?

Again you keep saying Zimmerman was the aggressor. The PC Affadavt in the filing of 2nd degree murder charge does not use this word at all. It says Zimmerman confronted Martin. That is diffferent than being the aggressor.

AGGRESSOR, crim. law. He who begins, a quarrel or dispute, either by threatening or striking another. No man may strike another because he has threatened, or in consequence of the use of any words.

No where did it say Zimmer did anything that would meet the definition of aggressor. The Special prosecutor will only say a struggle ensued, she can not say Zimmerman did any of the following which falls under the dlegal efinition of aggressor.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/aggressor

April 14, 2012 at 11:15 a.m.
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