published Sunday, February 19th, 2012

Birth Control

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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shifarobe said...

If it's against someone's conscience who are you to ridicule them fur face? Coward.

February 19, 2012 at 12:14 a.m.
John_Proctor said...

The lead rant in today's paper gets it right. ". . . contraception prevents abortion." Regardless of what the church preaches, it's followers make their decision based on their individual consciences.

And the lunatic ranting that "Obama is the devil and Clay is his servant" will start in 3 . 2 . 1.

February 19, 2012 at 12:18 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

"Who supports the Obama administration in this dispute?

The Catholic Health Association for one. It is among the administration’s more vehement backers. The association, which represents more than 600 Catholic hospitals and health systems nationwide, praised the Obama compromise. It said the proposed rule “protects religious liberty and the conscience rights of Catholic institutions.”. . .

Another backer is the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, an organization of nuns that represents 90 percent of Catholic women in religious orders in the United States. That group declared, “We believe the resolution the president made is a fair and helpful way for us to move forward.”

A third is the Association of Jesuit Colleges & Universities, which announced, “We commend that Obama Administration for its willingness to work with us on moving toward a solution” on the coverage issue.

Contraceptive coverage also enjoys the support of a majority of American Catholics. A poll by the Public Religion Research Institute found that 58 percent believe the government should require all employers to include contraceptives in their health plans at no cost. That’s an even higher level of support than in the overall population, where it stands at 55 percent. A recent New York Times/CBS News poll produced similar results."

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/healthcare/139465273.html#ixzz1mnmYFbzJ

February 19, 2012 at 12:22 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

YOU CAN'T GET AWAY WITH THAT

Since when is it legal to decry religious hypocrisy on the sabbath?

Clay, aren't you afraid of god's smote?

February 19, 2012 at 12:22 a.m.
Renfield said...

We live in an interesting world when some nameless piece of furniture has the gall to call a man who puts his name on his work proudly a coward.

February 19, 2012 at 12:22 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

DON'T WORRY, INSURANCE COMPANIES RULE THE WORLD

Bottom line: it's cheaper to provide birth control pills and other contraceptives than to pay for the cost of a full term pregnancy. Cheaper than abortion, too.

Guess where health insurance companies fall on this issue?

Also, shifarobe, the cartoon is not critical of conscience. It's critical of hypocrisy.

February 19, 2012 at 12:31 a.m.

You're not clever, Clay, or a rebel by coming up with this for a Sunday edition in a paper in the buckle of the Bible Belt.

You just confirm to me what you and all the other Obama loyalists are, disrespectful and ready to use any means possible to hurt and ridicule those who don't agree with.

I agree with you, Shifarobe.

People are going to have a lot more than condoms on their minds in November, no matter how many stupid cartoons you toss out there.

February 19, 2012 at 12:32 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

"to...secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity..." Telling people they have to provide something (that costs money) free, even if they have moral objection to it, and even though it's readily obtainable elsewhere, is liberty?

February 19, 2012 at 12:33 a.m.
alprova said...

Bbnd wrote: "You're not clever, Clay, or a rebel by coming up with this for a Sunday edition in a paper in the buckle of the Bible Belt."

Sunday is just another day of the week, the first day of the week in fact.

"You just confirm to me what you and all the other Obama loyalists are, disrespectful and ready to use any means possible to hurt and ridicule those who don't agree with."

Oh please. How in the world is the above cartoon "disrespectful," "hurtful," or used to "ridicule" anyone. Some of you people need to get a life and to develop a thicker skin.

"I agree with you, Shifarobe."

Well I don't agree with either one of you. Your disagreement with me bothers me deeply. Your positions are disrespectful to Mr. Bennett and is further, proof that you will go to any length to offer disrespect towards people with whom you disagree with about an issue.

Do you see how that works?

"People are going to have a lot more than condoms on their minds in November, no matter how many stupid cartoons you toss out there."

Yes they will, but most people, unfortunately for you, will not have the same thing on their minds that you do, or that which you think they should have on their minds.

President Obama will win his re-election with a landslide vote, despite all who are working against him.

February 19, 2012 at 12:45 a.m.

Exactly, Andrew. This is a clear attempt by Obama to do what he seems to do best, in my opinion, which is disrespect our Constitution.

Individuals in the Catholic Church, are free to do what they want and disagree with the Church on some issues, it's another thing to force a church to do something which goes against their faith. Obama crossed the line. He feels he can use the power of the government to interfere in church matters.

Very dangerous man.

February 19, 2012 at 12:49 a.m.

Not at all, Alprova. Clay can disagree, so can I, but the difference is leftists will go to great lengths to force people who disagree with them to do things they don't want to do. That's my observation.

Leftists don't want to wait for someone to come to a position voluntarily, they always will use force if need be.

Obama doesn't like the Catholic Church's policy on birth control, so he finds a way to use force to alter it.

Obama doesn't like us making our own decisions, so he'll push a mandate with punishments attached to it.

If I want to pack a lunch for my daughter for school it will be scrutinized.

I see a pattern. There's a cloud over this country since Obama was elected.

February 19, 2012 at 1:09 a.m.
fairmon said...

Every means of contraception including sterilization for males and females should be easily available and free including illegals. Abortions should be available and free also. It is a financially prudent thing to do. It is much cheaper than a full term pregnancy with prenatal care, the birth and any health issues for the mother and kid then health care for the kid until age 26, plus the cost to tax payers to help educate them through college if they want to go. For these reasons insisting on uncontrolled proliferation and growth of the population is akin to imposing their beliefs on those that don't have that religious belief. It is in a way imposing a religion on all the people therefore unconstitutional.

Availability of all means of birth control is likely to slow the growth of the dependent society since data indicates the more educated and successful plan to have or not have children.

February 19, 2012 at 1:14 a.m.
alprova said...

Bbnd wrote: "Not at all, Alprova. Clay can disagree, so can I, but the difference is leftists will go to great lengths to force people who disagree with them to do things they don't want to do. That's my observation."

Well, it has been my observation that right-wing people do just as much, if not more in some cases, to force people into complying with their own beliefs.

Take for instance the recent law passed in Virginia, forcing women to submit to an invasive vaginal ultrasound procedure, prior to a decision to seek an abortion.

"Leftists don't want to wait for someone to come to a position voluntarily, they always will use force if need be."

Ditto the above.

"Obama doesn't like the Catholic Church's policy on birth control, so he finds a way to use force to alter it."

Force? As I recall, the Administration specifically exempted the Catholic Church from the policy. His sin, as it has become known, was for the Obama Administration to not consult with Church leaders prior to instituting the birth control requirement upon employers who happen to be Catholic.

It is not an issue that followers of the religion have any problem with. 98% of all Catholics polled about the issue disagree with the Church on the issue of birth control and have used it for some period of time in their own personal life.

"Obama doesn't like us making our own decisions, so he'll push a mandate with punishments attached to it."

Again, when it comes to abortion, opponents on the right are doing anything and everything possible to prevent women from making up their own minds about that issue, as it pertains to their own life.

"If I want to pack a lunch for my daughter for school it will be scrutinized."

I've seen no widespread evidence that this is happening. One isolated case does not translate into a national policy, regardless of what you've heard or read.

"I see a pattern. There's a cloud over this country since Obama was elected."

Of course you see a pattern. You're like all the other Obama haters, who see a conspiracy in everything the man does or that which he takes a stance on.

The simple fact is that the man has done his level best to right the wrongs that existed at the time he took office. He has done as good a job as anyone else who may have been elected. This country is on the right track and will continue to improve, despite all who are working relentlessly to convince others with their imaginary rhetoric that the man is a failure.

February 19, 2012 at 1:33 a.m.

That's not the issue, Harp. The issue is about the government forcing a church to do participate in something which is against their teachings and policy. Birth control and abortion providers are as available as Little Debbie treats. There's no reason for this other than for Obama to flex his dictatorial muscles.

February 19, 2012 at 1:37 a.m.
David_Franks said...

Renfield--

RE "We live in an interesting world when some nameless piece of furniture has the gall to call a man who puts his name on his work proudly a coward."

Not just a nameless piece of furniture, but a misspelled piece of furniture as well.

February 19, 2012 at 1:38 a.m.
alprova said...

chattanoogatennesseeusa wrote: "That's not the issue, Harp. The issue is about the government forcing a church to do participate in something which is against their teachings and policy."

The Catholic Church is also responsible for changing the day of the week that should be observed as the Sabbath. Their teachings and policies also dictate to their parishioners that you must go through one of their Priests in order to speak with God. The list is long of the many teachings and policies where the Catholic religion differs from other Christian based religions.

"Birth control and abortion providers are as available as Little Debbie treats."

Clearly, you are not up to speed on the number of locations where a woman can seek an abortion. The fact is that they are very limited.

Birth control should be widely available and inexpensive too. God gave us all the natural desire for sex. We all know that sex causes babies to be created. What could possibly be wrong in preventing a sperm from meeting an egg, if the timing is wrong or unwanted?

"There's no reason for this other than for Obama to flex his dictatorial muscles."

Oh Brother....

February 19, 2012 at 1:56 a.m.
News_Junkie said...

blondebutnotdumb

Your moniker could get you prosecuted for false advertising.

The U.S. Supreme Court has expressly ruled that churches are subject to generally applicable laws. That was in an opinion by the arch-conservative Justice Scalia, who is a devout Catholic.

If you ever bothered to do some research first, you would have a lot less to post about, because virtually everything you post is the result of your unadulterated ignorance of the subject about which you so pointlessly pontificate.

You don't achieve anything but to waste everybody's time reading your mindless drivel.

February 19, 2012 at 2:56 a.m.
joneses said...

Why is it you liberals are so enamoured with sex? What this patetic president did was invoke church doctrine. This is not about conception as you stupid disgusting liberals would like it to be. The question you need to ask yourself is do you support a president that will order churches to go against their religious beliefs? This dishonesty is a typical liberal tactic to take away from the real issue. It is disgusting and is only meant to convince the less intelligent people it is something it is not. Do not believe what theses disgusting liberals say as they are liars.

February 19, 2012 at 5:22 a.m.
joneses said...

This country was founded on religious liberty and freedom of choice. The Catholic church is not saying it's employees can't use contraceptives, it's simply not willing to pay for them. To put it in perspective, you actually have a constitutional right to own a gun for example. However that doesn't mean that your employer or the govt has to provide you one. It simply means you have the right to get it yourself. Besides, condoms and birth control pills are cheap so man up, and 95% of populated areas have some sort of health clinic that will give it to you free anyway. Isn't that what the left really wants anyway? This is simply Obama antagonizing the Catholics and thumbing his nose at American values and liberty. This is none of the government's business. Funny how the lefties only like to holler "SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!" when it suits their needs. However when religious liberty becomes an issue you all kneel to the power of Obama..

February 19, 2012 at 6:53 a.m.
alprova said...

joneses wrote: "Why is it you liberals are so enamoured with sex? What this patetic president did was invoke church doctrine."

Actually, the requirement was handed down last August by the HHS and not the President himself.

"This is not about conception as you stupid disgusting liberals would like it to be."

Oh my. Do you mean that birth control measures do not prevent conception?

"The question you need to ask yourself is do you support a president that will order churches to go against their religious beliefs?"

Oh bull crap. You're a total idiot for asserting that the rule was something that Obama signed into law via executive order or something. He announced it in a speech, but the rule was put in place by the Department of Health and Human Services, Secretary Kathleen Sebelius.

I swear...some of you people have no clue how the Government works.

"This dishonesty is a typical liberal tactic to take away from the real issue. It is disgusting and is only meant to convince the less intelligent people it is something it is not. Do not believe what theses disgusting liberals say as they are liars."

It is you who is lying and you should know it. To some of you, everything that comes from Government is the personal doing of President Obama, especially if you happen to disagree with it. When it comes to the President, you happen to disagree with whatever it may be that he does.

February 19, 2012 at 7:28 a.m.
MTJohn said...

If men were the folks at risk of pregnancy, this never would have been an issue.

February 19, 2012 at 7:31 a.m.
alprova said...

joneses wrote: "This country was founded on religious liberty and freedom of choice. The Catholic church is not saying it's employees can't use contraceptives, it's simply not willing to pay for them."

You are wrong. The Catholic Church, via the Pope, issued a prohibition against its member using contraceptives in 1968.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control

"To put it in perspective, you actually have a constitutional right to own a gun for example. However that doesn't mean that your employer or the govt has to provide you one. It simply means you have the right to get it yourself."

You're not making a valid comparison and you certainly are not putting anything into perspective. You're muddying the waters.

"This is simply Obama antagonizing the Catholics and thumbing his nose at American values and liberty. This is none of the government's business."

When Obama announced that the Administration had tweaked the requirement on February 10, that Catholic institutions don't have to pay for the coverage, the cost will now be paid by the insurance companies, he won support from the Catholic Health Association, Catholic Charities, the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities, and the Sisters of Mercy of the Americas.

"Funny how the lefties only like to holler "SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!" when it suits their needs. However when religious liberty becomes an issue you all kneel to the power of Obama."

People who have never been Catholic are the ones who made it a religious issue, and it's not working. Catholics are siding with the Obama Administration on this issue AGAINST the Catholic Church.

The Republican/Conservative bid to brand Obama as anti-Catholic is already a bust, yet people like yourself persist in doing it. You clearly believe it's a great way to galvanize the conservative base in the short run, but it's no way to win over women and independents in November.

So please...keep up the good work.

February 19, 2012 at 7:46 a.m.
alprova said...

MTJohn wrote: "If men were the folks at risk of pregnancy, this never would have been an issue."

Truer words have never been typewritten.

February 19, 2012 at 7:49 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Ridicule. A favorite tactic of the left. But oh so avant.

February 19, 2012 at 7:52 a.m.
dougmusn said...

Catholics accept the teachings of the Catholic Church. For them, interfering with sex as procreation is a sin. Got it. Any religion can decree any activity they choose to be right or wrong and the followers of that religion will, well, follow it. However, Catholic institutions also run hospitals and universities and health plans for their employees all of whom are not Catholic.

Clearly, the Catholic Church has the right of moral suasion over its members. If their insurance plan provides contraceptive coverage and it is never used there is neither a cost to the Church nor a conflict. If a practicing Catholic chooses to use contraceptives, it is between him/her and his/her God and the priests.

One possible basis for the brouhaha I have not heard or read is this: a requirement to broaden the set of permissible activities beyond those of Church teaching undercuts the authority (and power) of the Church. Forget right/wrong--if I have been in charge and I lose that position, I will become upset.

February 19, 2012 at 8:07 a.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "Ridicule. A favorite tactic of the left. But oh so avant."

You obviously are new here. Most of the ridicule, name calling, and hate comes from those who swing right in this forum. There are times when ridiculing someone so demented and misinformed comes natural.

February 19, 2012 at 8:16 a.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn--

I see you are up. I don't stay up late so I would like to continue my discussion with you on 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.

Your choice of Bible translation was the NIV. The first sentence reads- Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? What does that sentence mean to you?

February 19, 2012 at 8:34 a.m.
chet123 said...

This country is deep in debt, unemployment is high,infraustructure crumberling,the Supreme Court is corrupted with money, democracy is being replaced with OLIGARCHY and here we are talking about contracetives....ha ha ha

Last time I checked...no church was being forse to pay for contraceptive.....ITS A SHAME RIGHT-WING MEN CANT HAVE BABIES....WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT IT ISSUE AT ALL......HA HA HA....WOULD LOVE TO SEE FAT BOY RUSH LIMBAUGH DELIVER A BABY HA HA HA HA

February 19, 2012 at 8:35 a.m.
woody said...

I'll bet, by the time this 'toon' is replaced by another, there will be an inestimable number of responses. The end result will likely tally even and due mainly to everyone's party affiliation.

However, no one will have uncovered any 'new ground', nor uttered any more prolific arguments in this long-standing debate. And yet, it was not long after this particular 'toon' was first seen that someone said that which needed to be said..words so true, but which will likely not be brought up again, except by me.

Thank you Renfield, for stating it so well and quite a bit more diplomatically than I would have done at such a tender hour, "...We live in an interesting world when some nameless piece of furniture has the gall to call a man who puts his name on his work proudly a coward...."

Bravo, Renfield, Bravo..Woody

February 19, 2012 at 8:40 a.m.
davisss13 said...

Alprova is setting these ignorant neanderthals right again. Boy, he sure does chop you idiots into little pieces.

The sheer arrogance of these so-called faith-based degenerates is astounding. They pick and choose their dogma based on what is convenient.

February 19, 2012 at 8:48 a.m.
DJHBRAINERD said...

If any of you vote for an incumbant you are part of the problem. Untill you realize both parties are the same and use these silly "issues" to divide and concur the masses, things will not get better. Fire them all at the local state and national level. early voting has already started

February 19, 2012 at 8:50 a.m.
davisss13 said...

Jack_Dennis said... Ridicule. A favorite tactic of the left. But oh so avant.

Filthy hypocrite. Do you remember the GOP ridiculing Kerry's purple heart medal by wearing purple bandaids? How about the same idiots slapping flip-flops together?

Your so-called party of Christian morals and family values are anything but. You're nothing but power-hungry, war mongering, torture loving, money-centered, two-faced degenerates. You desire nothing less than complete control of our lives from the cradle to the grave.

February 19, 2012 at 8:55 a.m.
Livn4life said...

All you who want the government to rule, we know your tactics. You will scream about it, you will criticize any who hold an alternative view, but secretly, you will hope you pass on from this life before it gets as bad as history has shown it gets and everyone knows it will get. If you do not feel this way, you just have to be Deluded! But as long as you think you know it all and have good intentions..........

February 19, 2012 at 8:57 a.m.

Landslide, Alprova???

AZ,NM,TX,OK,WYO,IDA,MT,ND,SD,NE,IA,KAN,AK,MO,NV,MS,AL, GA,FL,SC,NC,TN,KY,IN,VA,WV,OH,NH,MI,MN,WI,UT,CO,NJ are all states he is likely to lose. That's not a landslide. CA,HI,OR,WA,D.C.,IL,RI,NY,VT,MA,MD, are the only ones Dems always have in the bag. There will be no landslide.

If Obama wins it will be by he narrowest of margins. You need to stop sitting on your posterior and watching the view and look around you. Obama is either percieved to be a liar or incompetant. You seem to speak for Obama, but you have no idea what Republicans think or want.

February 19, 2012 at 9:04 a.m.
davisss13 said...

You need to stop sitting on your posterior and watching the view and look around you.

You need to get your head out of rightwing media and see just how REPUBLICANS are seen. Back to the 1950s socially and 1890s for the rest.

Obama is either percieved to be a liar or incompetant.

By every rightwing hack, that's for sure. But the rest of the country sees him as reasonable, willing to compromise. But then again, Reagan couldn't pass your ridiculous litmus tests.

You seem to speak for Obama, but you have no idea what Republicans think or want.

How can anyone miss what they want? They've made it perfectly clear by screaming it 24/7. Their #1 goal is to beat Obama, and they will do anything to achieve that goal, even intentionally damage the economy and split the country with their filthy culture war bull.

I would say you should be ashamed but it's overwhelmingly obvious to anyone outside your cult that you people have no shame whatsoever.

February 19, 2012 at 9:19 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

hmmmm, JonRoss: are you an associate? How would you know this?

February 19, 2012 at 9:21 a.m.
davisss13 said...

The alprovas of the world can regurgitate massive text presented by CNN and NPR but they have no concept that the devil is now in the process of ramming the Church of the Holy Obama up his arse.

Wow. You a member of the Phelps cult too?

February 19, 2012 at 9:46 a.m.
lkeithlu said...
  • I don't have a trust fund, I don't collect a church pension, or live in a highchurch mountain compound. I have to live in the real world.*

Are you saying I don't live in the real world?

My question is regarding your knowing the actions and mind of Satan.

February 19, 2012 at 9:47 a.m.
chet123 said...

HEY JONROSS ...MAYBE HE SHOULD CONSULTED WITH THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH.....

February 19, 2012 at 9:47 a.m.
chet123 said...

I'M SURE THEIR HANDS ARE CLEAN...HA HA HA THE WAY THEY TREATED BLACK PEOPLE IN TRYING TO MAINTAIN SLAVERY.....AND THE WAY THEY PUSHED BACK DOING RECONSTRUTION ERA.....ALSO FAVORING THE STATE-RIGHT ISSUE(COUSIN JED AND UNCLE GOMER RUNNING THE GOVERNMET)WITH BOSS HOG AS MAYOR HA HA HA HA

OH YEAH SOUTHERN BAPTIST HANDS ARE CLEAN....THE CHURCH ARE BLAMELESS....HA HA HA HA

February 19, 2012 at 9:52 a.m.
moon4kat said...

It's amazing that anyone would listen to what old men in dresses and silly hats (who can't marry or have kids) have to say about procreation.

The Catholic Church can't even convince most of its members to follow it's dictates regarding birth control, why should the rest of us be controlled by its dogma?

In fact, the "holy" Roman Church hasn't even deterred its priests from molesting altar boys. And, public policy should be dictated by Catholic Bishops because . . . ?????

February 19, 2012 at 10:01 a.m.
MTJohn said...

chet123 said...

I'M SURE THEIR HANDS ARE CLEAN...HA HA HA THE WAY THEY TREATED BLACK PEOPLE IN TRYING TO MAINTAIN SLAVERY.....

This documentary says a lot. http://www.slaverybyanothername.com/

But, while the focus is on the perpetuation of slavery in the south following the civil war, it really does condemn all of our society. Unless and until we are willing to come to honest terms with our history and its consequences, we are disingenuous when we pray "God bless America".

February 19, 2012 at 10:03 a.m.
alprova said...

chattanoogatennesseeusa wrote: "You seem to speak for Obama, but you have no idea what Republicans think or want."

Republicans are only about a third of this nation's population. It doesn't matter what they think or want. They are outvoted, for the most part. Among Republicans, I have no doubt that Obama's numbers are horrible.

But you see, this year's election will be determined by independents. And they largely STILL support President Obama, according to the most recent polling numbers.

February 19, 2012 at 10:08 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

And you Obamists are as hateful toward those who do not worship in the Church of the Obama as the Phelps church are hateful toward gays and lesbians.

I don't worship anything, JonRoss, least of all a president. I am not happy with everything this administration has done, but am willing to give him his due. You, on the other hand, feed at a trough of fear, hate, conspiracy and lies. The man can't sneeze without people like you finding fault. Ironic. The person who posted here that getting Obama out and putting in a clean-cut American in the White House is a perfect example. (that post was amazing in its ridiculousness; if Obama is anything, he's a clean-cut American) Don't you think that if there was any real evidence that Obama was (pick one) a Muslim, Satanist, Socialist, Communist, Fascist, Foreigner it would have been revealed by now? Obama is a middle of the road Democrat, not too liberal, taking his time and making measured steps to solve some problems this country faces (which, by the way are not entirely his fault). Is he doing everything right or wrong? Only time will tell.

This fear-laced, extreme response to this president is similar to what I saw a few fellow liberals do in response to Bush being elected a second time. Bush is no more the right wing wacko some liberals portrayed him than Obama is the antichrist. Crazy stuff, most of it exaggeration and lies, posted on the internet and read by the likes of you looking for any straw to grasp, is why this country is such a mess. It's bad enough that there are people silly enough to believe it, but for intelligent people like our current GOP candidates to play on peoples' unfounded fears to get elected is nothing short of disgraceful.

February 19, 2012 at 10:10 a.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "moonkat you are confused and your world view is uninformed. most pedophiles have a Progressive nature about them. most of the priests who molest children worship both in the HRCC and the Church of Obama."

Just when I feel that your statements couldn't be any more over the top, you introduce the above.

Where do you get your information that all the pedophiles who have molested children have a "progressive nature," number one, and where do you get the idea that they are Obama supporters?

You cannot begin to back up such statements, you pathetic troll.

February 19, 2012 at 10:27 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

JonRoss, you have offered nothing of any substance.

February 19, 2012 at 10:29 a.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "I am amazed ikee. You are engaged in a one person circlefarque. But I suppose if you are totally invested in the Church Of Obama you can spew irrational thoughts and be forgiven by our lord and saviour, Barack Hussien Obama. Your screed was hateful and mean spirited."

You're nothing but a hopeless hypocrite.

February 19, 2012 at 10:29 a.m.
alprova said...

ikeithlu wrote: "It's bad enough that there are people silly enough to believe it, but for intelligent people like our current GOP candidates to play on peoples' unfounded fears to get elected is nothing short of disgraceful."

Which is why none of the candidates running for the Republican nomination will succeed in their bids to become President.

February 19, 2012 at 10:33 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Although you are too far gone down the rabbit hole to be retrieved, JonRoss, I hope that the measured, sane responses by others on this forum will reveal that there are folks like you out there, and that one needs to think carefully about the crap that is being distributed by unscrupulous people out there taking advantage of those that cannot discern reality for themselves. I notice that the sensible conservatives on this forum are not coming to your defense. Wonder why?

February 19, 2012 at 10:35 a.m.
MTJohn said...

woody said...

I'll bet, by the time this 'toon' is replaced by another, there will be an inestimable number of responses. The end result will likely tally even and due mainly to everyone's party affiliation.

You were right, Woody. It's time to put a condom on this conversation.

February 19, 2012 at 10:44 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

and scripts provided by your professors.

Hahahahahaha.... Most of my professors are dead, Jon Ross. I've been out of college for decades.

You just keep those crazy posts coming. You are making my point for me, so I guess I can move on to other tasks.

February 19, 2012 at 10:52 a.m.
MTJohn said...

The disciples of Frank Luntz (I'd wager most of you don't even know who your are) have learned well the trick of ascribing their own worst faults to those with whom they disagree.

February 19, 2012 at 10:56 a.m.
dude_abides said...

JonRoss... please get an avatar. Whenever I read your posts I can't help but see Lee Harvey Oswald.

February 19, 2012 at 10:59 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

It was the only part that was anywhere near coherent enough to answer.

You know, I can't remember any professor of mine mixing politics with quantum mechanics. Of course, that subject kicked my arse, so maybe I have blocked it out...

February 19, 2012 at 11:01 a.m.
miraweb said...

True enough, Dude. The less coherent the rant, the less likely there is to be anything but the default icon. Pretty sure at least two of those are just dopplegangers of BRP. Right, blondie?

February 19, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

From that time on I have despised the arrogance of lefties who live in their coddled little worlds unaware (or worse, uncaring) about the damage they do to people who are actually productive.

I despise people who assume that, just because my political views differ, that I am somehow "coddled" or "unproductive". You have yet to address any opposing views with any substance, so your claim is unsubstantiated on several levels. I live in the real world, work two (and at times three) jobs, own my own home, pay taxes, and live within my means. I raised three healthy (and yes, liberal and even religious) children who work in a variety of occupations, and have been married to the same man for 30 years. I am sorry your education was so mixed with politics. I fortunately did not have that problem. I learned science in science, math in math and English in English, in spite of the liberal community my college was at that time. Sounds like you wasted your hard earned money. But that does not dismiss you from the responsibility to avoid stereotyping, ranting and making statements that you cannot hope to even explain, much less support.

February 19, 2012 at 11:18 a.m.
moon4kat said...

JonRoss, regarding your post at 10:05 a.m. You sure claim to know a lot about the proclivities of miscreant priests. On the other hand, you certainly can't point to anything that shows I am "confused," and, you know absolutely nothing about what informs my world view (except that it is NOT the Catholic Church).

February 19, 2012 at 11:21 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Let me see here, the president is trying to mandate personal and economic behavior in his quest for the Demokratik Utopia and The Wart thinks that pointing out that some Catholics use contraception is the notable part?

Talk about not being to be able to see the forest for the trees!

February 19, 2012 at 11:32 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I disagree with you that it is o.k. to casually butcher babies in the womb.

Okay, now we are getting somewhere. I don't like abortion, but I dislike unplanned pregnancy much more. I see every day people who have no business being parents and who cannot or will not provide a loving, safe and healthy home. So I want to keep abortion legal and safe until all pregnancies are planned and all children cared for. You are fine to disagree, but don't be surprised if you are challenged on the issue of this very cartoon, contraception, which can help reduce the incidents of unplanned pregnancy and should be supported by everyone, especially pro-life folks.

I disagree with you that those who disagree with your Obamist world view should be silenced through verbal and economic intimidation.

I don't think you should be silenced, but if you refuse to engage in substantial conversation on the actual issues instead of accusing liberals of "worshipping him", which I don't, then don't be surprised if you are not taken seriously.

I disagree with you that religious institutions should be governed not by the members but by the Obamist state.

Nothing in the birth control mandate says that anyone, including Catholics, must use birth control. When you are ready to deal with facts, then you will be engaged in rational conversation. Until then, you will be dismissed as a loony.

Your hate has trumped your common sense and the "education" you claim to have received

I hate little, and it sounds like my education did not make me bitter or reactionary like yours did.

February 19, 2012 at 11:42 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Blondebutnotdumb said: “Obama crossed the line. He feels he can use the power of the government to interfere in church matters. Very dangerous man.”

And when churches and their followers do wrong and interfere with the fundamental rights of our citizens, BBND? Surely, even you must admit this has occurred and and continues to take place. Indeed, historically speaking, it wasn’t that long ago that it was against the law in many States in the U.S. for inter-racial couples to marry.

Needless to say, the principle of separation of church and state was being ignored and the reason given was religious. Perhaps, the most famous case involved Richard and Mildred Loving who were arrested and sentenced in the State of Virginia. The trial judge proclaimed:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix." [Judge Leon M. Bazile, State of Virginia]

February 19, 2012 at 11:43 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

You are welcome to quote the passage that dictates that people are required to use birth control.

February 19, 2012 at 11:52 a.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "Why should I be required to pay for your birth control ikee"

You're not and no one has proposed that you do.

February 19, 2012 at 12:02 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You said people would be forced to use birth control.

As far as paying for it? We all pay for medical care. Why should my premiums pay for your viagra? I am morally opposed to viagra. It would be against my religion, except I don't have one. My taxes and insurance premiums pay for things I don't approve of, but that's life.

You, as a pro-lifer, should be making contraceptive available free and easy to find. Anything to reduce abortion. Unless you are like some pro-life people I know whose primary goal is to punish women for having sex that they don't approve of, not to stop abortion.

By the way, I paid for my own birth control. Out of pocket. BCBS did not cover birth control during my reproductive years. Thankfully, I was employed and could afford it.

February 19, 2012 at 12:02 p.m.
tipper said...

In the 21st Century, we still are debating this! I'm beginning to feel like Ward Cleaver; sweatervest and all.

February 19, 2012 at 12:09 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Typical Obamist filth. If you DARE disagree with Progressive enunciations you are bitter and a reactionary.

Hilarious. Maybe it's time you went to Sunday School and let the adults talk.

February 19, 2012 at 12:12 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You don't want to have a conversation. You just want to rant and accuse. You didn't address a single item in my post. What would Jesus think? I think he would say "please don't speak for me, Jon Ross. It's getting embarrassing". Sunday School is just what you need. Have fun!

February 19, 2012 at 12:20 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BigRidgePatriot said: "Talk about not being to be able to see the forest for the trees!"

No, BRP. This is an example of not being able to see the forest for the trees:

In Somaia, over twenty-five thousand children have died of brutality and starvation in the Somalian famine . . . and continue to die of brutality and starvation.

In the U.S. . . hundreds of Catholic bishops, evangelical clergy, and Republican politicians have spent millons of dollars pontificating on the evils of birth control. . . and continue to spend millons of dollars pontificating on the evils of birth control.

February 19, 2012 at 12:45 p.m.
fairmon said...

ChattanoogatennesseeUSA said... That's not the issue, Harp. The issue is about the government forcing a church to do participate in something which is against their teachings and policy. Birth control and abortion providers are as available as Little Debbie treats. There's no reason for this other than for Obama to flex his dictatorial muscles.

Read the 1:14 a.m. post again. There is zero male sterilization provided free by anyone. The availability of birth control and abortion providers are not readily available to all women in fact they are rather limited in many states and cities. Some also have a cost to the person needing the services. Those services posted should be available free with or without the AHCA. The government cannot give anything to one party without taking something away from another.

To suggest that birth control is free and furnished by insurance companies is the most dishonest statement made regarding the issue. It results in a premium increase to every person with health care coverage. This increased cost to non-catholics essentially allows a religious entity to impose it's beliefs on the rest of society and hides the fact those in the church with health care are also contributing to providing the "free" coverage. Surely no one is naive enough to believe the manufacturer of those products or the provider of those services will provide them without processing a claim with the insurance company therefore increasing payouts by the insurers and cost to every policy holder or exempt one party without shifting the cost and/or responsibilty to others.

This has no less affect then the exemptions to millions from the AHCA including the entire state of Nevada which will increase the impact on those not exempt. I do think there is a legitimate need to enable those unable to afford health care coverage to obtain it at a reduced rate or free based on ability to pay .However, I think the AHCA as passed is a poorly written piece of garbage that will, as Pelosi stated, become known as it becomes effective.

February 19, 2012 at 12:51 p.m.
dude_abides said...

jonross... I keep reading these posts about you being in jail. Is that BS? Just want to give you the chance to clear that up, because if you are now, or have ever been in jail (other than wrongfully accused), it would take an almost unimaginable amount of gall to post the things you do. So, am I correct in assuming that what I've read here in the past is BS, and that taxpayer money has never been spent to incarcerate, feed, bathe, or entertain you? This speaks to your posts about your money being used to pay for things you disagree with.

February 19, 2012 at 12:54 p.m.

Sorry folks but I don't want government making decisions based on religious beliefs, or compromising the health insurance offered to me as a condition of employment. I want objective decisions that rely on at least some science, not to be subject to the whims of my employer. While in an ideal world, I would have the freedom to negotiate that libertarians dream about, I know that is not feasible.

So you know what? I want the government to protect and serve me, and that takes certain standards of objectivity and participation. The tenets of religions tend not to measure up.

BTW, for the ham sandwich example, employers have been required to make kosher options available when appropriate. So if somebody has pork consumption as article of faith, and they are in such a situation, I could respect that being met under the same terms.

February 19, 2012 at 12:56 p.m.
fairmon said...

alpro said to ctusa...

Oh bull crap. You're a total idiot for asserting that the rule was something that Obama signed into law via executive order or something. He announced it in a speech, but the rule was put in place by the Department of Health and Human Services, Secretary Kathleen Sebelius.

Correct and she did so without getting legal advice or other input and without the presidents knowledge. Therefore throwing him in front of the bus. His initial reaction was to support his employee and stand by the ruling. It may have been better to hold that position and let the courts decide. It has been stated here and by the media that most catholics support the original position since 98% of catholics practice birth control so the effect on the election should be de minimis.

February 19, 2012 at 1:10 p.m.

There is an eroding of individualism in this country and many of you on here are either too stupid, don't mind it as long as those dictating are on your side, or too much in denial to accept it.

You're easily distracted by this topic and you don't see the overall picture. Social and economic freedom has never been under such a threat as it is now.

Alprova, the arrogant leftist that he is, poo poos the reality that there's a movement to stop or scrutinize what parents put in school lunches. This did not exist before Obama came into office. The whole "we can't just leave it up to the parents" philosophy is real and dangerous.

Obama has ushered in an era of government interference in private affairs.

February 19, 2012 at 1:29 p.m.
eastridge8 said...

davisss13...your post of 8:55 am....gee whiz...tell us how you REALLY feel! You must not like ANYBODY!

MtJonn...your post at 7:31 am says it all...if men could get pregnant we wouldn't be having these conversations...

chet123....hey Buddy!...Give 'em H..L!

mountainlaurel...your post of Judge Leon M. Bazile speaks volumns re: GOD's intentions...

harp333...Honestly,harp...sometimes I think you are the smartest, sanest person on here!...your posts are so informative and thought-provoking...I have enjoyed reading them all...Thank you.(I am totally serious about this,harp. Please don't think otherwise.)

February 19, 2012 at 1:31 p.m.
miraweb said...

I am always impressed how hard some folks will work to shift any debate into just one or two repatiive talking points (that may have nothing to do with the cartoon).

JR is clearly enamored with his own beautiful delusions and hasn't yet learned that when everyone keeps telling you to take it down a notch - it might not be everyone else's fault. Back on the meds, m'boy and the world will look better in the morning.

I'm more worried about the folks who really have an agenda and look for any hook in the news to be sure that 1) If you don't like any of the candidates on tap that 2) You won't vote for anyone at all.

Our problem is not an ability to think, but the need to step around 3 or 4 out-and-out lies (and sometimes scrape off our shoes) before the country can even begin to talk about anything real.

February 19, 2012 at 1:32 p.m.
joneses said...

chet,

Again you have showed your stupidity. When all these things happened to the blacks from the Southern Babtist the Southern Babtist were all dummycrats like you. The dummycratic party is the party of racism. You dummycrats have proved this time and time again with you promise that if the blacks follow you they will be taken care of. How is that working out for you blacks with a more percentage of you living in poverty more than anytime in this country's history? Think about it. do you really think a white guy named Chet cares about your best interest?

February 19, 2012 at 1:50 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Chattanoogatennesseeusa said to leftists: "You're easily distracted by this topic and you don't see the overall picture."

I believe it's you who is failing to see the overall picture, ChattTnUS.

Thousands and thousands of families have been impacted by skyrocketing job layoffs and foreclosures, which is inextricably linked with rising levels of homelessness and hunger for many Americans, including children who are particularly affected by these conditions.

Meanwhile back at the church of political pontificators . . . . . .

Hundreds of bishops, evangelicals, and Republican politicos have wasted millions of dollars and countless hours pontificating before the media on the evils of birth control. . . and continue to waste millons of dollars and countless hours pontificating on the evils of birth control.

February 19, 2012 at 1:57 p.m.

Obama is a walking lie. He's a Constitutional lawyer?????

Focus people!

February 19, 2012 at 1:57 p.m.
NGAdad said...

Dude you were just BSed by

"JonRoss said... Nope, never been in jail. " That's a fib. Now he's facing 3-5 years for a felony still coming to trial. Just to keep it real.

February 19, 2012 at 2:26 p.m.
joneses said...

mountainlaurel,

You are a liar. Can you name me one Republican that has proposed legislation in the last 22 years to abolish abortion or contraception? You cannot so therefore you are a liar. The Republicans and churches promote personal responsibility in regards to sex. You disgusting liberals are teaching it is okay to do anything that walks just to satisfy your own sexual desires and if you have a consequence for your irresponsible sex the government will take care of that for you. You are pathetic and disgusting. Do not be to concerned because Obama has taken on the responsiblity to dictate what beliefs religions can have.

February 19, 2012 at 2:28 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Joneses said: "You are a liar."

How so, Joneses? Thousands and thousands of families in the U.S. are being impacted by skyrocketing job layoffs and foreclosures. And what are the Republicans doing while this is happening? They're ranting, raving and pontificating about the birth control issue.

No, I believe it's rather clear that it’s Republican politicians and Deadbeat Dads House like Rep. Joe Walsh who aren’t telling the truth about this birth control issue, Joneses:

“House Republicans looked pretty bad today when their morning panel about the Affordable Care Act’s contraception regulations failed to include a single woman.

But then the Republicans argued that it really had nothing whatsoever to do with contraception. Representative and Deadbeat Dad Joe Walsh of Illinois, who speaks for most of the House Republican Conference, insisted, “This is not about women. This is not about contraceptives. This is about religious freedom.”

Well, if that’s true, they certainly had a funny way of focusing on it. If the title of your hearing is, “Lines Crossed: Separation of Church and State,” . . . wouldn’t it be useful to have. . . legal scholars and experts on the First Amendment testifying? . . .

Oh yes, there was one lawyer there — Catholic University President John Garvey, who . . . spent his time discussing — the Obama Administration’s contraceptive regulation.

http://www.samefacts.com/2012/02/watching-conservatives/republicans-ignore-religious-liberty/

February 19, 2012 at 2:51 p.m.
dude_abides said...

NGAdad... wow! Look how quickly tu_ella de Ville came to JonRoss' defense, and how vociferously! Talk about giving the benefit of the doubt. So, agreeing with tu_ella is, in itself, exculpating.

February 19, 2012 at 3:35 p.m.
wyldmon said...

Stupid Christians...keep your make believe non-sense to yourself or prepare to meet thy peers!

February 19, 2012 at 4:04 p.m.

JonRoss, please provide clear and specific examples to support your contention, you may want to start with the definition you're using.

February 19, 2012 at 4:12 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Ikeithlu... we need to keep a charitable heart when it comes to things like Viagra. Some people need these type things to be able to stay healthy and happy. Some men may come home, take one look at their lover, and wish they could inject or snort the stu_ff.

February 19, 2012 at 4:12 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Do we want a Church that is right when we are right? Or a Church that is right when we are wrong? Do we disobey the Bible when it is inconvenient for us and then rationalize it away? That is being an al la cart Christian. There maybe are a very few posters on here that go to a Church that is a Cathedral for Saints, but I and the majority go to a Church that is a hospital for sinners. Then there are the rest on here who shake their fists in the face of the Lord and think that they will get away with it. I can predict the future, GOD WINS. Before you hit those computer keys in the future think, It this pleasing to the Lord? If not, then don't do it. Always think. WWJD.

February 19, 2012 at 4:16 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I'm not opposed to viagra, per se, Dude. Just that it was covered by insurance when birth control was not.

February 19, 2012 at 4:38 p.m.
alprova said...

ctusa wrote: "Alprova, the arrogant leftist that he is, poo poos the reality that there's a movement to stop or scrutinize what parents put in school lunches. This did not exist before Obama came into office. The whole "we can't just leave it up to the parents" philosophy is real and dangerous."

When Arnold Schwarzenegger took it upon himself to do the same thing that Michelle Obama has done regarding fat kids, not a peep was heard. How dare that black woman tell white people how to raise their kids...

Fox News Dr. Manny Alvarez is responsible for spreading a rumor that a kindergartner had her lunch seized and replaced in a North Carolina School.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/02/15/preschool-replaces-students-turkey-sandwich-with-chicken-nuggets-due-to/

The story was refuted by North Carolina State officials shortly afterward. The school only requested that the child take a carton of milk to go along with her lunch.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=8544298

"We have determined that no employee of DHHS, nor the Division of Child Development and Early Education (DCDEE) or its contractors, instructed any child to replace or remove any meal items. Furthermore, it is not DHHS' policy to inspect, go through or question any child about food items brought from home."

The entire incident surrounded a complaint that was lodged by the Grandmother of the child, who additionally claims to have been billed by the school for the replaced lunch items allegedly seized, but has not produced any such bill as evidence.

People such as yourself are acting as if food guidelines for school children are something new. They're not. Federal guidelines to assure that kids get no less than two balanced meals per day while attending public schools have been in place for more than three decades.

But because we have a negro couple inhabiting the White House, a contradiction in terminology, there are many white people running around like chickens with their heads cut off, at the very thought that these uppity folks endorse and approve of policies that encroach into their white kid's lives to scrutinize the food that their kids eat while attending school, meets minimum guidelines.

And because most of these same people are completely unaware of the fact that this scrutiny has been ongoing for decades, it must be the doing of the current President or his wife, merely because the First Lady has made it an issue since she has been in the White House.

Laura Bush involved herself in kid's education. Hillary felt that it took a village to raise a child. Michelle Obama feels that childhood obesity is an issue worth tackling.

I honestly don't recall Mrs. Bush being criticized for her work in raising the reading levels of children in schools. Both Mrs. Clinton and Mrs. Obama have taken immense heat for their work and ideals.

But then, they are both Democrats.

February 19, 2012 at 4:41 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Tu_quoque said: "The fact that the Obozo administration is violating "the wall of separation between church and state" is a very necessary discussion to have."

I believe you're overlooking the fact that the only thing discussed during the alleged "separation of church and state" hearing organized by the House Republicans was the Catholic church's view of contraception, Tu_quoque. As for the violators, I believe history has shown us over and over again that it has been members of the religious sector who are proned to ignore and violate the principle involving the separation between church and state - and this birth control issue is just another example. President Obama is just doing his best to protect the rights of everyone.

February 19, 2012 at 4:51 p.m.
dude_abides said...

I'm with ya Ikeithlu. Someone was questioning your reasoning and I was exploring theirs, through you, vicariously. You know, there are some people out there who are anti sex-ed, anti contraception, pro viagra, anti choice, anti child care assistance, pro stronger sentencing for crimes, and then gripe about taxes to build prisons! It appears as though some may even spout these views from a jail cell!

February 19, 2012 at 5:47 p.m.
acerigger said...

tu_quoque ,that you rarely post any comment that does not attempt to insult or denigrate another commenter is indicative of the type of personality disorder in which one's self-loathing or feelings of inadequacy are over-compensated for by deriding others.It's quite common behavior of the narcissist personality,and just so you know,it's also quite apparent to others.

February 19, 2012 at 5:50 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

BobMKE said: “Do we want a Church that is right when we are right? Or a Church that is right when we are wrong?” “Do we disobey the Bible when it is inconvenient for us and then rationalize it away? That is being an al la cart Christian”.

There does seem to be a lot of a la carte Christianity being served these days. But from what I can tell most of it seems to be coming from some of these pulpits and politicians. In fact, I’ve yet to hear any politician claiming to be a Christian promoting this Christian basic:

“God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.” [1 John 4:16]

As for some of these Catholic bishops who have been dominating the news recently, where have they been in regard to other fundamental issues? I believe Andrew Sullivan says it well and asked some very good questions in one of his recent commentaries:

“Where were they on a much more fundamental cause for Catholics: universal healthcare? Were they anything like as vocal?"

Where were they when the Bush administration was practizing and authorizing the torture and abuse and robbing of human dignity of terror suspects? The Pope never obliquely mentioned these categorical evils when visiting the US and cozying up to the war criminals in the Bush administration?

Where have they been on tackling climate change - a sacred obligation for Catholics according to the Pope they follow so fanatically?

Why so utterly fixated on sex, especially the sex lives of women and gay men? Why so utterly indifferent to the whole range of public policies which Catholic orthodoxy has strong views on?”

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/02/the-priorities-of-the-catholic-bishops.html

February 19, 2012 at 5:53 p.m.

mountainlaurel said... In Somaia, over twenty-five thousand children have died of brutality and starvation in the Somalian famine . . . and continue to die of brutality and starvation. In the U.S. hundreds of Catholic bishops, (sic) evangelical clergy, and Republican politicians have spent millons of dollars pontificating on the evils of birth control. . . and continue to spend millons of dollars pontificating on the evils of birth control.

Here’s the church, here’s polling candor,

here are her critics, with self-righteous slander.

The church is indeed full of hypocrites, but, as usual, those who pounce on it are straining on a gnat while swallowing a camel. Christian charities are at the forefront of charitable work in the USA and around the world. Christian organizations and individuals provide far more support for women and children (before and after birth) than their critics. The critics limit their definition of compassion to government-controlled efforts, which are almost always less effective.

As promised in an earlier thread, what follows is but a sample of the charitable work of pro-life organizations, in this case Catholic charities. They, along with Protestant and non-denominational groups, provide the majority of poverty relief and development work (money and volunteer work) in the USA and a large portion of similar work elsewhere in the world. They also rank among the most cost-efficient and trustworthy in their use of donations. (See various journals of philanthropy.)

Christians have always carried the bulk of responsibility for caring for the poor in the west. Their work was nothing less than stunning to pagan Rome and Europe. They are simply continuing a long, long tradition.

February 19, 2012 at 6:05 p.m.

[In addition to the vital help for women and children at thousands of crisis pregnancy centers and adoption agencies] “Religious groups also provide [other] crucial services to needy mothers and infants. John Cardinal O’Connor, the late Archbishop of New York, famously pledged to assist any woman from anywhere experiencing a crisis pregnancy, and the current Archbishop of New York, Timothy Dolan, recently renewed Cardinal O’Connor’s pledge. The Catholic Church—perhaps the single most influential pro-life institution in the United States—makes the largest financial, institutional, and personnel commitments to charitable causes of any private source in the United States. These include AIDS ministry, health care, education, housing services, and care for the elderly, disabled, and immigrants. In 2004 alone, 562 Catholic hospitals treated over 85 million patients; Catholic elementary and high schools educated over 2 million students; Catholic colleges educated nearly 800,000 students; Catholic Charities served over 8.5 million different individuals. In 2007, the Catholic Campaign for Human Development awarded nine million dollars in grants to reduce poverty. And in 2009, the Catholic Legal Immigration Network spent nearly five million dollars in services for impoverished immigrants.”

“The Lazy Slander of the Pro-Life Cause: Do pro-lifers care about life after birth?” by Helen Alvaré, Greg Pfundstein, Matthew Schmitz and Ryan T. Anderson (The Witherspoon Institute, January 17, 2011)

February 19, 2012 at 6:07 p.m.

In Somalia: “Fighting Famine Isn't Enough: Some 2,000 Somalis die of starvation daily. Drought isn't the reason." (Christianity Today, November, 2011)


In the USA: “The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions …

“The average annual giving among the religious is $2,210, whereas it is $642 among the secular. Similarly, religious people volunteer an average of 12 times per year, while secular people volunteer an average of 5.8 times. To put this into perspective, religious people are 33 percent of the population but make 52 percent of donations and 45 percent of times volunteered. Secular people are 26 percent of the population but contribute 13 percent of the dollars and 17 percent of the times volunteered …

“Religious people are more generous than secular people with nonreligious causes as well as with religious ones. While 68 percent of the total population gives (and 51 percent volunteers) to nonreligious causes each year, religious people are 10 points more likely to give to these causes than secularists (71 percent to 61 percent) and 21 points more likely to volunteer (60 percent to 39 percent). For example, religious people are 7 points more likely than secularists to volunteer for neighborhood and civic groups, 20 points more likely to volunteer to help the poor or elderly, and 26 points more likely to volunteer for school or youth programs. It seems fair to say that religion engenders charity in general — including nonreligious charity.”

“Religious Faith and Charitable Giving” by Arthur C. Brooks (“Policy Review” No. 121, October 1, 2003)

February 19, 2012 at 6:19 p.m.

Too bad that statistic doesn't factors out donations to groups like the one behind Proposition Eight.

February 19, 2012 at 6:56 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

How much of "charitable giving" includes tithing to a church? I don't donate to churches, but I do to church-owned schools and colleges. Does that count? I also volunteer, but it doesn't get counted because I'm an atheist, and we obviously don't have morals or scruples and we certainly don't volunteer or give to charities. We can't possible be concerned about others without Jesus.

February 19, 2012 at 7:03 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

WhatsWrongWithTheWorld said: “The church is indeed full of hypocrites, but, as usual, those who pounce on it are straining on a gnat while swallowing a camel.”

Since many of the arrogant hypocrites are in leadership positions and are currently playing authortarian religious politics with an important principle involving the separation between church and state in America, I don’t think you can equate it to a simple scenario involving gnats and camels, WWWTW. Indeed, it's a much greater issue.

While you may not value the principle of separation between churches and state a majority of Americans do. And as for the political game of patty cake being played by some of these bishops and their Republican cohorts, it’s obvious the church’s membership has a far greater understanding about liberty, fairness and conscience than some of these bishops:

“Who supports the Obama administration in this dispute?

The Catholic Health Association for one. It is among the administration’s more vehement backers. The association, which represents more than 600 Catholic hospitals and health systems nationwide, praised the Obama compromise. It said the proposed rule “protects religious liberty and the conscience rights of Catholic institutions.”

Another backer is the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, an organization of nuns that represents 90 percent of Catholic women in religious orders in the United States. That group declared, “We believe the resolution the president made is a fair and helpful way for us to move forward.”

A third is the Association of Jesuit Colleges & Universities, which announced, “We commend that Obama Administration for its willingness to work with us on moving toward a solution” on the coverage issue.

Contraceptive coverage also enjoys the support of a majority of American Catholics. A poll by the Public Religion Research Institute found that 58 percent believe the government should require all employers to include contraceptives in their health plans at no cost. That’s an even higher level of support than in the overall population, where it stands at 55 percent. A recent New York Times/CBS News poll produced similar results.”

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/healthcare/139465273.html#ixzz1mnmYFbzJ

February 19, 2012 at 7:17 p.m.
aidehua said...

Memo to Jews: After They Come for the Catholic Church, They Will Come For Us

http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2012/02/19/memo-to-jews-after-they-come-for-the-catholic-church-they-will-come-for-us/?singlepage=true

This is a poll-tested way to divert attention from Obama's abysmal handling of the economy and foreign policy. I so hope it backfires on his re-election plans. To hell if he is a Marxist/Moslem/Atheist or Nation of Islam disciple - Obama is utterly un-American (according to my definition.)

February 19, 2012 at 9:42 p.m.
MTJohn said...

aidehua said...

Memo to Jews: After They Come for the Catholic Church, They Will Come For Us

Memo to Catholics and Jews - they have already come after the Muslims by declaring female mutilation illegal!

February 19, 2012 at 10:20 p.m.
MTJohn said...

whats_wrong_with_the_world said...In the USA: “The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent).

We might donate to charity, but we still support the social, political and economic systems that perpetuate poverty and injustice.

February 19, 2012 at 10:23 p.m.

MTJohn said... We might donate to charity, but we still support the social, political and economic systems that perpetuate poverty and injustice.

I assume you’re speaking of property rights, free markets, and asking the OCCUPY movement to clean up after themselves.

February 19, 2012 at 10:38 p.m.

lkeithlu said...

How much of "charitable giving" includes tithing to a church? I don't donate to churches, but I do to church-owned schools and colleges. Does that count? I also volunteer, but it doesn't get counted because I'm an atheist, and we obviously don't have morals or scruples and we certainly don't volunteer or give to charities. We can't possible be concerned about others without Jesus.

I’m sure you’re a kind, generous person, but this study shows that you are the exception, and that, as a rule, secular liberals don’t put their money where their mouth is. Since the cartoon deals with the issue of hypocrisy, and since religious believers and institutions, Catholic and Evangelical Christians in particular, are regularly accused of not caring for children after they’re born, I thought I would provide some evidence to the contrary. There’s plenty more.

February 19, 2012 at 10:58 p.m.

mountainlaurel said... (something incoherent and irrelevant about church and state).

February 19, 2012 at 10:58 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

IT WAS NEVER AN ISSUE BEFORE

All of the 'conservatives' who were trying to get the rest of us to believe Obama crossed the line separating church and state never made the case. Y'all blew it, and it's a very simple case to make. The argument is ultimately false, I might add, but very simple. Right up your alleys.

The catholic church opposes contraception and abortion.That's fine. But the catholic church also runs colleges and hospitals that educate and care for people who are not all catholic. Some bishops still insist they want contraception and abortion coverage dropped from their health insurance plan - and here's the key - regardless of who pays for it. It's not about the funding, to those bishops. It's about fundamental catholic dogma.

That's the argument none of you made. I was ready to offer a sincere golf clap to anyone who would have articulated that issue. Mind you, you still would have been wrong, but at least you would have been 'singing from the same hymnal.'

Anyway, the church is skating on thin legal ice because these institutions accept government subsidies and money from tax payers who are not all catholic. The church could continue to insist on dropping contraceptive coverage but Obama could threaten to advocate dropping the church's tax exempt status.

Let's get real for second: This is not really an issue with the catholic church or the bishops or I suspect many of you. This is just another chance to try and politically beat up Obama. Try to create a wedge issue to split democratic voters.

We know it's a phony argument because 28 states already have church affiliated institutions providing contraceptive services in their health insurance plans. Even Romney included the coverage in 'RomneyCare,' and 8 states, including Georgia, Iowa, and Montana, extend the mandate to include churches themselves and not just their affiliated institutions.

Wait...what? You mean you didn't know that catholic churches in 8 states are already forced by those governments to provide contraceptive coverage to employees? Do you know why you never knew that?

IT WAS NEVER AN ISSUE BEFORE!

Under the Affordable Care Act, churches in those 8 states can drop contraceptive coverage if they want, but they probably won't. It turns out that Obama would actually restore the Constitutionally guaranteed separation of church and state that was being trampled on by repressive republican state governments.

What a Country.

February 19, 2012 at 11:46 p.m.
fairmon said...

Assuming a vast majority of both church members and those who do not belong to any particular denomination and non believers still support and accept the constitution should be the principles we are governed by which includes the government will not impose any religion on the people nor interfere etc. etc. It does not contain the words separation of church and state. But, accepting that as the intent prompts the questions:

Why are churches exempt from taxes? Why are they exempt from any laws that pertain to the rest of the population? Why is any law that is not applicable to churches a law?

Federal government involvement in social engineering and other areas that are not constitutionally assigned to the federal level that should be left to the states result in issues such as this. This and similar issues detracts attention from those critical issues that are within the federal governments defined role.

February 20, 2012 at 5:33 a.m.
fairmon said...

Smoke and mirrors describes the proposed reconcile to the birth control issue. Mandating that insurers include a no deductible, no copay provision in all health care policies results in anyone that buys health care coverage paying a higher premium. This includes those previously exempt for religious reasons just as it includes anyone else that objects to birth control. Are the churches teachings illegal or is the mandate of including birth control illegal? There is no mandate that those objecting use birth control so the only issue is should they pay for or help pay for it? Any law that is not equally applicable to every U.S. resident probably should not be a law. This principle should also apply to the tax codes which favor some over others with exemptions, subsidies and tax categories based on social status, such as married, single, head of house hold instead of limiting any differentiation to income category. Earned income credit is a similar smoke and mirrors hidden form of welfare which if an appropriate welfare should be identified and handled as a transparent welfare program with the cost transparent and known.

Our government practices is if you can't dazzle them with brilliance confuse them with bull s#!+. Do we need more shovels.

February 20, 2012 at 6:11 a.m.
moonpie said...

Harp is correct that mandating insurers must pay for birth control is going to be passed through to the insured.

However, if it prevents enough pregnancies, it will save money. Insurers will have to give out a BUNCH of pill packs to equal the cost of one Cesarean section.

Studies also show that giving women more than one month of pills at a time reduces pregnancy risk because women don't have to get to the pharmacy on time every month.

February 20, 2012 at 7:23 a.m.
MTJohn said...

whats_wrong_with_the_world said...

MTJohn said... We might donate to charity, but we still support the social, political and economic systems that perpetuate poverty and injustice.

I assume you’re speaking of property rights, free markets, and asking the OCCUPY movement to clean up after themselves.

Actually, I'm speaking about the various ways our society allow the wealthy and powerful to steal from those less fortunate and, thereby, perpetuates disenfranchisement.

February 20, 2012 at 7:26 a.m.
chet123 said...

BOBMIKE ON post feb 19, 4:15pm

BOBMIKE STATED A CHURCH THAT RIGHT WHEN WE ARE RIGHT OR A CHURCH RIGHT WHEN WE ARE WRONG....

BOBMIKE HATE TO BUST YOUR BUBBLE....BUT IN MOST SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH...THEY ARE WRONG WITH THE WRONG CONGRET...AND IN MANY ISSUES THEY ARE LEADEING THE CHARGE OF HATERED....YOU TRIED TO MAKE ALL CHURCHES SOUND SANCTIMONIAL.....WHY DO THEY NOT TEACH ON LOVE??? Hmmm THAT THE THEME OF CHRIST TEACKING Hmmmm WHY DONT THEY TEACH THE BEALTITUDE Hmmmmm? THAT IS CHRIST GREATEST SERMON Hmmmmm? WHY THEY DONT DARN TEACH ON GREED Hmmmmmmm? WHY DONT THEY DARN TEACH ON USUARY Hmmmmmm? BOY I WOULD LOVE TO TALK TO YOUR PASTORS...OR MAYBE ONE DAY YOU WILL ASK HIM THOSE QUESTIONS....OR IS HE PASTORING ONLY FOR THE VOCATION OR PAY Hmmmm?

YOU GO ON AND SAY YOU AND MAJORITY CHURCHES ARE A HOSPITAL FOR THE SICK Hmmmmm? THE MAJORITY OF SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCHES CALL SICKNESS THROUGH THEIR HATE MINISTRY AND RACISM AND BIGOTRY....

AND WITH YOUR SICK COMMENT YOU SPOKE OF PEOPLE SHAKING THEIR FIST AT THE LORD????Hmmmmm LET ME SEE Hmmmmm SO IF YOUR HYPOCRITE CHURCH IS CALLED OUT...THAT SHAKING YOUR FIST AT THE LORD....Hmmm SO YOU EQUATE THE LORD WITH YOUR TWISTED HATERED OF PEOPLE...Hmmm

WELL THE PROPHET AMOS AND MANY OF THE OTHER OLD TEATIMENT PHOPHET ALONG WITH JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS WRONG....BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PLACE THEY STOPPED(THE CHURCH)...CRITICIZING THE CHURCH HA HA HA HA

I AGREE GOD WILL WIN....BUT HE MAY NOT BE ON YOUR TEAM BOBMIKE.......GROW-UP MAN....YOU SOUND LIKE A LITTLE KID!

February 20, 2012 at 7:46 a.m.
chet123 said...

THIS IS WHY I TAKE A FEW DAYS OFF FROM POSTING

ITS LIKE FISHING...I SET MY BAIT AND WAIT FOR A BITE....

AT SOME POINT THE LOONIES LIKE JON ROSS;BIGRIDGEPATRIOT;JONESES AND BOBMIKE WILL CRAWL FROM UNDER THE ROCKS WITH THEIR TWISTED THINKING HA HA HA

IT WORKS EVERYTIME!

HARP3339 IS NOT AS QUITE AS BAD....HE'S JUST A OBAMA HATER....BEING AN OLD MAN FROM THE DAYS OF SEGRAGATION,I DONT THINK HE HAS EVER HAD A BLACK MAN OVER HIM.....AND THEN ONE DAY HE WAKE UP AND FIND OUT HE GOT A NEGRO AS HIS PRESIDENT HA HA HA..IT BLEW HIS MIND!...HE CAME UNGLUED...BET HE LOST A LOT OF SLEEP ..HA HA HA HA...HE'LL GET USE TO IT HA HA HA HA

February 20, 2012 at 8:13 a.m.
chet123 said...

WHAT WRONG WITH THE WORLD -- YOU TRY TO COME OFF LIKE A GOOD CHRISTIAN GUY...BUT YOU HAVE MANY FLAWS IN YOUR BELEIF THATS HAVE OBVIOUS BEEN SHAPED BY YOUR ENVIROMENT...MAYBE WE CAN HAVE A ONE ON ONE DIALOGUE SOON......I WILL BE GENTLE....I ARE NOT A SMART BUTT LIKE SOME OF THESE CRACK-POTS

February 20, 2012 at 8:23 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

It is just the first step towards forced sterilization and abortions in the name of population control.

China is the model the Demokrats love now.

February 20, 2012 at 8:37 a.m.
moeToonz said...

Touche, Clay!!!

Responsibility for birth control begins with one's decision to have sexual relations. It is a precautionary exercise - not reactionary.

Responsible birth control should occur outside of any religion, belief, faith or church. It is a morally sobering responsibility.

Keep telling it like it is.

February 20, 2012 at 8:43 a.m.
dougmusn said...

JonRoss: You have been taking a lot of fire during this exchange. Sadly, some of it is deserved. Permit me to quote your post from yesterday:

Nope, never been in jail. Never went whoring around and expected The Church of Obama to pay for my birth control or baby killing. Never expected Obama to pay for my cheerens food after the rent has been spent on crack or cable. Never asked Obama to pay for my children's upbringing because the baby daddy done hooked up with another hoe. Never demanded that Obama pay for my college education. Just when and where does it end, dude ?? Are we to just have our paychecks sent directly to Mr. Obama and then let him return to us, according to our own needs ? Seizing the healtcare options of 330 million people to solve a problem for 30 million so as to permit the Obama regime to rule by whim just ain't going to work for most of us.

I will only briefly mention the racist subtext of the first part of this post. The implicit assumption in a string of color words (whoring, rent spent on crack/cable, baby daddy, hoe) is the majority of monies spent on our safety net goes to undeserving blacks. Please put the dog whistle down.

I have a bigger problem with the second section. 'Seizing the options of 330 million to solve a problem for 30 million' suggests these are different groups. When we treat health care as a privilege, we all suffer: the decision to treat the emergence of HIV disease as a gay plague affecting "others" opened the door to entry of AIDS into the heterosexual community (that would be us). In turn, the incubator of AIDS allowed the emergence of XDRTB (multiply drug resistant tuberculosis), a disease which threatens us all. When a person without access to health care goes to an emergency room, he gets a modicum of health care but only at the highest possible cost. This cost is not borne by the poor who visit the ER--they are, after all, poor--but by us.

Thus, the ACA actually reduces our costs and improves our health even if we never use any of it.

February 20, 2012 at 8:45 a.m.
fairmon said...

chet123 said....

HARP3339 IS NOT AS QUITE AS BAD....HE'S JUST A OBAMA HATER.

You can't stand it if someone don't think Obama is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have never said he was a bad person or made a personal attack but I do think he is an idiot when it comes to fiscal policies and the budget. I don't like him because he, like those before him, get the federal government involved in social issues that should be left to the states with federal regulations and laws that prohibit the states from legislating anything or allowing any behaviour that is not consistent with the constitution. Race has nothing to do with it. I probably have more black friends than you, maybe more. I probably have more black friends than you have white due to your prejudice.

Who is the most greedy those that want to keep what they have or you and those that want to confiscate more of it for themselves? Why do you think it better for the government to confiscate money from the wealthy then skim off about 40% of it before redistributing it as they deem appropriate and that will get them the most votes. Why would they not allow people to select a qualifying charity and take a "tax reduction" for that amount which is more than a deduction for those itemizing and allows those taking the standard deduction to benefit from being charitable also. The federal government can define the qualifications and eliminate all the costly and incompetent federal hierarchy.

February 20, 2012 at 8:50 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

AT THE RISK OF FEED THE TROLLS...

And knowing that facts have never stood between you and a phony political wedge issue, do some research on your own. Catholic Gov. Martin O’Malley of Maryland said Sunday on CNN that critics of a new federal health policy are overreacting to a statute that requires religious institutions to pay for contraceptives in their health insurance plans.

While churches are exempt, hospitals and schools with religious affiliations must comply. The new policy goes into effect on August 1, but religious groups will have a 12 month extension. But O’Malley noted that 28 states already enforce such a policy.

Here's some background information available to all: While almost all insurance plans cover prescription drugs, some still do not provide coverage for the range of FDA approved prescription contraceptive drugs and devices. More than half of states, however, require insurance policies that cover other prescription drugs to also cover all FDA approved contraceptive drugs and devices, as well as related medical services. Some of these state policies allow employers or insurers to refuse to cover contraceptives on religious or moral grounds. Other states have limited mandates requiring coverage of contraception that apply to either specific types of insurers, such as health maintenance organizations (HMOs), or coverage written for a segment of the insurance market.

And for those of you who insist that Obama is trying to provide federal funding for abortion, the Hyde Amendment already makes that illegal.

And to put "the issue" into political context, here's what the NY Times editorial page said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/opinion/the-freedom-to-choose-birth-control.html

February 20, 2012 at 8:50 a.m.
fairmon said...

chet123 said...

I DONT THINK HE HAS EVER HAD A BLACK MAN OVER HIM.....AND THEN ONE DAY HE WAKE UP AND FIND OUT HE GOT A NEGRO AS HIS PRESIDENT.

That is one of your most ridiculous post ever. You do seem to consider Obama a king but actually no president of any race is "over" anyone which is why the founders limited the powers of the three branches of government. I would vote for Colin Powell regardless of party before voting for Obama or any of the current republican candidates but not because he is black which appears to be your only criteria.

February 20, 2012 at 9:08 a.m.

BigRidgePatriot, I thought it was the businessmen and capitalists who loved China, since they're always investing in it, and I seem to recall a lot of praise for their ability to control their debt and economic growth from the conservative side.

I know I've seen a lot of demands to have working conditions just like China's from the Republican party, in order to be competitive or something.

February 20, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn--

Did you ever recognize in 1Corinthians 6:9-11 that homosexuals are among the wicked and will not inherit the kingdom of God?

February 20, 2012 at 9:27 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Hey Chet. The CapsLock key is just left of the A. thanks

February 20, 2012 at 9:31 a.m.
fairmon said...

moonpie said... Harp is correct that mandating insurers must pay for birth control is going to be passed through to the insured.

However, if it prevents enough pregnancies, it will save money. Insurers will have to give out a BUNCH of pill packs to equal the cost of one Cesarean section.

Studies also show that giving women more than one month of pills at a time reduces pregnancy risk because women don't have to get to the pharmacy on time every month.

I agree not to mention the many other cost in addition to cesarean section births. Birth control options should be plentiful, readily available and free, not limited to only those insured. Why not provide the option for women to sign up and have them mailed to them timely enough to assure they are never without them? Should those here illegally without health care not have free access also? I would not object to the same being true for abortions, free and conveniently available. The return on the investment in birth control would be significant.

February 20, 2012 at 9:31 a.m.
chet123 said...

WELL WELL WELL....LOOK WHO'S TALKING! THE DELUSIONAL "HARP3339"...HARP LET ME REMIND YOU THAT YOU HAVE A TRACK RECORD...YOU HAVE A TRACK RECORD BUDDY!...DONT LIE!....YOU WANT TO TAKE SHOTS AT THE PRESIDENT AND NAME CALL HIM....I JUST CALL YOU OUT ON IT....AND WILL CONTINUE..YOU ARE OBSESSED ON THE FACT YOU HAVE A BLACK PRESIDENT..YOU ARE FULL OF HATERED...A SORE LOSER..MAD BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH...WOKE UP ONE MORINING AND REALIZE THERE'S A BLACK-MAN CARRYING THE BLACK-BOX WHO WAS BASICALLY ELECTED BY WHITE VOTERS....YOU FEEL BETRAYED DONT YOU????...

YOU SAY RACE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT HA HA HA...YOU ARE THE KING OF DE NILE HA HA HA...BECAUSE YOU ARE IN DENIAL HARP! HA HA HA..YOU SAY YOU HAVE BLACK FRIENDS...HA HA HA....AND I HAVE A FEW,JUST A FEW WHITE FRIENDS JUST LIKE YOU....BIGOTS,NARROW MINDED,WENT THRU SEGRAGATED SCHOOL ,CHURCHES AND TAUGHT RACISM FROM GRAND-PA AND GRAND-MA AND I FEEL SORRY FOR THEM AS I DO FOR YOU..EVENTHOUGH I ENJOY CLEANING YOUR CLOCK....BUT ON THE BRIGHT SIDE THE MAJORITY OF WHITE AMERICANS ARE NOT LIKE YOU....THEY ARE OPEN MINDED, PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL...THANK GOD FOR THEM AND NOT YOU HARP

YOU HAVE A DOUBLE WAMMY....YOU ARE WRAPPED UP IN RACISM AND CLASSISM......NOTICE HOW DO IMPLY MIDDLE CLASS ARE TAKING FROM RICH AND GREEDY.....ARE YOU SMOKING CRACK???..JUST THE CONTRARY.. THE MIDDLE CLASS WANT THE RICH AND GREEDY OFF THEIR BACK......THE MIDDLE CLASS WANT THE RICH AND GREEDY TO STOP BLOOD SUCKING THEM......BUT YOU SPIN IT AROUND LIKE THE MIDDLE CLASS ARE TAKING FROM THE RICH AND GREEDY.....THAT A BALD FACE LIE HARP-----

YOU JUST REFUSE TO LOOK AT FACT....YOU CLOSE YOUR EYES....YOU PLUG YOUR EARS.....YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH....THE TRUTH IS THE RICH AND GREEDY INCOME IN THE LAST 30YEARS HAVE CLIMBED ALMOST 300% WHILE THE MIDDLE CLASS HAVE ALMOST STAGNATED.....LOOK LIKE THE RICH AND GREEDY ARE GUILTY OF THE BLOOD SUCKING......

THEY HAVE PAID OFF POLITICIAN TO PASSED LAWS TO THEIR ADVANTAGE...THEY HAVE INVESTED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO UNDER-MIND THE MIDDLE-CLASS BY SENDING AMERICAN JOBS OVER SEA FOR SLAVE-LABOR WAGES...THEY HAVE KILL OFF LABOR UNIONS..AND SUPPRESS WAGES AND SALARIES TO MAX THEIR GREEDY POCKETS..THEY HAVE TRIED TO REMOVE COLLECTED BARGAINING....THEY MAKE NO SACRIFICES AND FIGHT NO OVERSEAS WARS....THEY JUST REAP THE BENEFITS FROM THE BLOOD THAT THE MIDDLE-CLASS SONS AND DAUGHTER SHED ON FORIGEN LANDS.

February 20, 2012 at 9:44 a.m.
klugermann said...

My, oh my. So many words and so many hours spent discussing this ever-so-important topic. Now, who in the world would possibly benefit from magnifying nits like this one? During an election year? With the economy slowly but steadily improving? The DOW reaching a 4-year high? GM reaping record profits? Obama's approval rating reaching the highest it's been in 3 years? Why, there absolutely MUST be SOMETHING that the little people should be focusing on instead, right?

February 20, 2012 at 9:45 a.m.
moonpie said...

Thanks harp,

I believe preventing unintended pregnancy would save money, especially if given to the uninsured. When uninsured women get pregnant they are eligible for medicaid for the pregnancy.

So we can pay for them not to get pregnant, or we can pay for their pregnancies.

Individuals without insurance are more likely to be of at a lower socio-economic standard (SES) and it's been well documented that people with a low SES have higher risk pregnancies, more prematurity, more NICU stays etc.

I agree, we don't need to mention all the extra costs associated with pregnancy over birth control.

February 20, 2012 at 9:50 a.m.
Anklejive said...

For troglodyte Republicans to make this about religious freedom is a smokescreen. If you want to make it about religion then religious institutions and churches shouldn't be sucking off the teat of the government in the first place (subsidies, tax breaks, and for churches, paying NO taxes at all), nor should they be employing anyone who is not practicing the same religion.

But our society doesn't work that way. You can't make people work as slaves, you can't pay them below the minimum wage, you can't deny people a job based on the color of their skin. Any employer - company, corporation, or organization - must treat people equally and follow the law, hence they should not be able to deny health coverage to some people just because it goes against some 13th century religious belief.

An added thought: If we had single-payer health care for all, employers wouldn't have to be caught between what a doctor says is best for a patient and the patient.

February 20, 2012 at 10:11 a.m.
chet123 said...

CONSEVATIVE!....YOU EVER RECOGNIZE IN MATT;23:27 WOE YOU "HYPOCRITE" YOU ARE LIKE WHITED SEPULCHRES WHICH INDEED APPEAR BEAUTIFUL OUTWARD BUT ARE WITHIN FULL OF DEAD BONES AND OF ALL UNCLEANNESS

TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR OWN CROOKED SOUL!

February 20, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.
chet123 said...

WELL GUESS I WILL PULL OUT FOR A WHILE AND SET MY BAIT AND WAIT FOR THE RIGHT-WING HATERS..HA HA HA!

February 20, 2012 at 10:40 a.m.
conservative said...

Chet--

Good Morning! Hope you have a wonderful day!

February 20, 2012 at 10:48 a.m.

I think it's funny how many of you on here try to push the idea that Obama is a beloved figure in this country.

Harp doesn't think that he's a bad guy, but he's an idiot when it comes to economic matters. I agree with the idiot part, but I disagree about the bad guy part. I think he is.

It seems to me you have to have some bully in you to be a socialist or big government advocate.

Obama and the Democrat Party have a problem with people or groups thinking for themselves or not agreeing with them. It always degenerates into trying to destroy them or trying to ridicule them.

I think Obama is pretty consistent in his desire to make the government number one in our lives, whether we like it or not. My gut tells me he's a bad guy who is used to getting his way. A very passive aggressive man.

I'm also sick and tired of you, Chet, accusing anyone who doesn't like or disagree with Obama of being a racist. You're ignorant. Bad men come in all colors and races. Obama is a bad man who happens to be black. Bad men have no problem bullying people until they get their way.

February 20, 2012 at 11:12 a.m.
joneses said...

blondebutnotdumb

Understand that these pathetic disgusting liberals cannot brag about all the acomplishments of this pathetic president because he has accomplished nothing to brag about. Harry Ried would not even let the Senate vote on his budget because it was so bad. Now we have gas prices higher than they ever have been in February and these liberals will not even hold this pathetic president they worship responsible. if it were a Republican they would be pissing and moaning about how the Republicans are in bed with the oil companies. Obama does not mind high gas prices as it falls in line with his agenda to detroy the midle class. These liberals are pathetically blind and stupid all they have is the race card which makes them look more foolish. They are pathetic as they are the true racist by promising the blacks evrything and delivering nothing. all the dummycrats do is use the blacks to keep them in power. it is sad that a whole race could be this brainwashed.

February 20, 2012 at 11:21 a.m.
News_Junkie said...

Here's a link to a discussion of the potentially serious ramifications of the failure of the party to coalesce around the putative front-runner Romney: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73070.html

February 20, 2012 at 11:23 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

happywithnewbulbs said... “I thought it was the businessmen and capitalists who loved China, since they're always investing in it, and I seem to recall a lot of praise for their ability to control their debt and economic growth from the conservative side. I know I've seen a lot of demands to have working conditions just like China's from the Republican party, in order to be competitive or something.”

I would like to see the “demands to have working conditions just like China's from the Republican party” that you are referring to. That statement sounds like hyperbole to me.

What I have seen is expressions of dismay that the United States has become so antagonistic towards business that it is actually easier for a US owned business to open a factory in China than it is in the United States. This is a pretty amazing statement considering how much inherently harder it usually is to move into a new country. The company I worked for had a terrible time when they first opened plants in Europe. It took us a great deal of effort to become accustomed to the differences in laws and culture.

No, Republicans DO NOT want working conditions in the US to be “just like China’s”. Please tell, where did you get that idea?

February 20, 2012 at 11:29 a.m.
miraweb said...

Italy has decided to tax the Catholic Church on its non-religious properties. Apparently that includes hotels, shopping centers, and guest houses associated with monastaries.

While I don't support taxing religious organizations, I see an awful lot of non-profits out there involved in openly commercial endeavors that get pass on taxes. Harvard comes to mind.

I am also not sure where the idea that the people who use oral contraceptives are typically low-life, ne'er-do-wells teenagers who just can't manage their urges.

"Half the country" would be a better description, don't you think?

February 20, 2012 at 11:35 a.m.
terrybham said...

Great work as usual. You can always tell when you hit it out of the park because all of the knuckle draggers come out of the woodwork. Keep up the excellent work Clay-you're the best.

February 20, 2012 at 12:11 p.m.

CHET,

I AM YOUR FATHER. COME WITH ME TO THE DARK SIDE AND TOGETHER WE WILL RULE THE UNIVERSE.

IT IS YOUR DESTINY.

February 20, 2012 at 12:19 p.m.

CHET, I DON'T LIKE BAPTISTS EITHER.

February 20, 2012 at 12:27 p.m.
joneses said...

Clay has only showed his stupidity by claiming what this pathetic fool we have as a president did was about contrception. IT IS NOT ABOUT CONTRACEPTION YOU STUPID DISGUSTING LIBERALS! It is about this pathetic fool you worship as president dictating church doctrine. Clay, are you that stupid? Apparently so. The only reason you follish liberals like Clay keep promoting this as about contraception is you are loosing the female vote so you lie to get their vote back. You are that pathetic.

February 20, 2012 at 1:10 p.m.
fairmon said...

123 said...

....YOU WANT TO TAKE SHOTS AT THE PRESIDENT AND NAME CALL HIM....I JUST CALL YOU OUT ON IT....AND WILL CONTINUE..YOU ARE OBSESSED ON THE FACT YOU HAVE A BLACK PRESIDENT..

When other than expressing the opinion he is ignorant regarding the economy which is still my opinion.

February 20, 2012 at 1:13 p.m.
fairmon said...

123 you rattle on like a can of rocks with the most illogical and unsupported statements than anyone would think possible. Using your own words:

CHET123 YOU SAY RACE HAVE (HAS) NOTHING TO DO WITH IT HA HA HA...YOU ARE THE KING OF DE NILE (DENIAL) HA HA HA...BECAUSE YOU ARE IN DE NILE (DENIAL) CHET! HA HA HA..YOU SAY YOU HAVE WHITE FRIENDS...HA HA HA....I HAVE NO BLACK FRIENDS JUST LIKE YOU....BIGOTS ,NARROW MINDED, WENT THRU SEGRAGATED SCHOOL ,CHURCHES AND TAUGHT RACISM FROM GRAND-PA AND GRAND-MA AND I FEEL SORRY FOR THEM AS I DO FOR YOU..EVENTHOUGH I ENJOY CLEANING YOUR CLOCK....BUT ON THE BRIGHT SIDE THE MAJORITY OF BLACK AMERICANS ARE NOT LIKE YOU....THEY ARE OPEN MINDED, PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL...THANK GOD FOR THEM AND NOT YOU CHET.

You consider your opinion as facts add a few misleading stats or comments from the media or others with a huge bias then claim your opinions are facts. I don't plan to waste another minute responding to your delusional fantasies.

February 20, 2012 at 1:41 p.m.
mtngrl said...

joneses said...

Clay has only showed his stupidity by claiming what this pathetic fool we have as a president did was about contrception. IT IS NOT ABOUT CONTRACEPTION YOU STUPID DISGUSTING LIBERALS! It is about this pathetic fool you worship as president dictating church doctrine. Clay, are you that stupid? Apparently so. The only reason you follish liberals like Clay keep promoting this as about contraception is you are loosing the female vote so you lie to get their vote back. You are that pathetic.

First, where is the President mentioned in the cartoon?

Second, Please explain how this is not about contraception?

Third, What "church doctrine" are you claiming the President is dictating?

February 20, 2012 at 1:55 p.m.
eastridge8 said...

Well, ya'll, it ain't gonna happen...chet123 ALWAYS POSTS IN CAPS.

People have been asking him FOREVER to not use caps. He uses caps when he gets riled up but mainly it's because he's PASSIONANT about the subject! I don't always agree with him but I do get a kick out of reading his posts. And, he is NOT a bad guy! He just has his opinions about it and he won't change. He'll argue the point forever....just like the majority of you on here...YOU'RE sure you're right and the other guy in wrong....same for chet123.

I like chet but I still think harp makes the most sense...at least to me.

February 20, 2012 at 2:47 p.m.
jesse said...

maybe everybody need to get a frontal lobotomy and start posting in caps!!

drive his a$$ crazier than it already is!!

February 20, 2012 at 3:19 p.m.
LOL said...

For the liberal perspective on all things family, see the article titled "Sex-changing treatment for kids: It's on the Rise" in today's TFP.

February 20, 2012 at 3:29 p.m.
joneses said...

mtngirl,

Are you that stupid as well? Get your head out of your ass and pay attention.

February 20, 2012 at 4:05 p.m.
mtngrl said...

I see you are calling names instead of being able to answer the questions...

February 20, 2012 at 4:11 p.m.
joneses said...

You know what is amazing about this pathetic fool you disgusting liberals support? Here we are with gas prices higher than they have ever been in February. Isreal is getting ready to attack Iran. Syria is killing innocent civilians. President pathetic has added 6 trillion dollars to the debt in 3 years. He has said nothing about any of this and if he did he would say something stupid like "I am monitoring the situation". He is a complee failure and you disgusting liberals think contraception is the biggest challenge facing America today. For this reason Clay Bennett is just another a fool like you with blinders on. Pathetic.

February 20, 2012 at 4:14 p.m.
joneses said...

President pathetic is not mentioned in the cartoon. However the cartoon is part of the libeal agenda to take away attention from the fact this pathetic president is telling churches he has the power to force them to go against their religious beliefs. The disgusting liberal media, Clay Bennett included, is attempting to move the attention from this pathetic president's arrogance by saying he does not care whether the Catholic church believes in abortion or contraception. He is ruling over them by demanding they supply contraception and abortion to their employees through their health insurance. Open your eyes and you might see what is happening right in front of you.

February 20, 2012 at 4:18 p.m.
mtngrl said...

You referred to portions of my anatomy, and locations of those which you know nothing about.

If you look at my questions which you are avoiding, you will see you are repeating accusations which I asked you to expand on.

What is Obama "dictating" to religions?

(Note, no churches have been required to pay for contraceptives)

So go ahead and answer my questions then I will answer yours

February 20, 2012 at 4:34 p.m.
hambone said...

joneses, the reason gas prices are going up has to do with the big oil companies paying back the GOP for their undieing support. Big oil trying to influence the election.

And as far as contraception goes, it is that nut case Santorum who is keeping it in the discussion!!

February 20, 2012 at 4:41 p.m.
mtngrl said...

I see you edited your post after my response...

President pathetic is not mentioned in the cartoon. However the cartoon is part of the libeal agenda to take away attention from the fact this pathetic president is telling churches he has the power to force them to go against their religious beliefs. The disgusting liberal media, Clay Bennett included, is attempting to move the attention from this pathetic president's arrogance by saying he does not care whether the Catholic church believes in abortion or contraception. He is ruling over them by demanding they supply contraception and abortion to their employees through their health insurance. Open your eyes and you might see what is happening right in front of you.

Please post any evidence that the President ever demanded or forced actual churches to provide either of the services you mention. It didn't happen.

February 20, 2012 at 4:41 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Blackwater48 said: “Let's get real for second: This is not really an issue with the catholic church or the bishops or I suspect many of you. This is just another chance to try and politically beat up Obama. Try to create a wedge issue to split democratic voters.”

I agree the motive behind the birth control issue is to politically beat up on President Obama, but I also believe you’re underestimating the role that some religious leaders have played in creating the kind of cultural and religious wedge issues that we're seeing in U.S. politics.

During the Bush/Cheney era, neo-conservative and Roman Catholic priest Richard Neuhaus was a close unofficial advisor to former President Bush on such policies as abortion, stem-cell research, cloning and the defense-of-marriage amendment. [Time Magazine, Feb. 5, 2005]

Reverend Neuhaus was one the major architects of the religious right. In 1995, Neuhaus along Charles Colson, former Special Counsel to President Nixon, edited Evangelicals and Catholics Together: Toward a Common Mission, which created considerable controversay in a number of religious circles. Neuhaus was also the founder of two Neoconservative foundations: the Institute on Religion and Democracy in Washington D.C. and the Institute on Religion and Public Life, which publishes First Things magazine, which according to its mission statement focuses on creating a "religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society."

In 2006, the New Republic published a critique of Neuhaus, “The Christianizing of America,” by Damon Linker, a Catholic former editor at Neuhaus's First Things magazine. In the critique, Linder expressed serious misgivings about Neuhaus’s conduct and motives:

“The America toward which Richard John Neuhaus wishes to lead us -- [is] an America...in which moral and theological absolutists demonize the country's political institutions and make nonnegotiable public demands under the threat of sacralized revolutionary violence, in which citizens flee from the inner obligations of freedom and long to subordinate themselves to ecclesiastical authority, and in which traditionalist Christianity thoroughly dominates the nation's public life.” [2006, Linker]

February 20, 2012 at 4:44 p.m.
alprova said...

jonses wrote: "You know what is amazing about this pathetic fool you disgusting liberals support?"

No. Pray tell...

"Here we are with gas prices higher than they have ever been in February.""

Do you know what is amazing? That you feel that any President can do a thing about gas prices, no matter who he may be. It was just as stupid to blame Bush for gas prices as it is to blame Obama.

"Isreal is getting ready to attack Iran."

And the last time I checked, they are a country of their own, free to do as they please. They are not a territory owned by the United States.

"Syria is killing innocent civilians."

Again, what business is that of America or its leader?

"President pathetic has added 6 trillion dollars to the debt in 3 years."

Your number is off, as usual. 1.8 trillion of that was put into play by GWB.

"He has said nothing about any of this and if he did he would say something stupid like "I am monitoring the situation"."

Oh please. You act as if the man is supposed to jump every time something goes wrong anywhere in the world. It's that kind of crap that has caused this nation problems with the rest of the world.

"He is a complee failure and you disgusting liberals think contraception is the biggest challenge facing America today."

It was the Conservatives and a few Catholics who made the policy announced by the HHS a cultural issue to go to war over, six months after the fact.

"For this reason Clay Bennett is just another a fool like you with blinders on. Pathetic."

Oh please shut-up. You're an embarrasment to Obama bashers.

February 20, 2012 at 4:47 p.m.
hambone said...

Then you both are J.R.!!

February 20, 2012 at 5:47 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - rather than hijack this thread (although I'm not sure what difference it would have made), I responded to your question from yesterday am over in the thread where our conversation started.

February 20, 2012 at 6:28 p.m.
chet123 said...

HELLO EASTRIDGE8.....HOW ARE YOU TODAY..WE REALLY HAD A SUNNY DAY HERE IN CHATTANOOGA.....WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN LATELY???...DONT STAY AWAY SO LONG.

YOU MAY WANT TO TURN YOUR HEAD FOR AWHILE...ITS ABOUT TO GET NASTY IN HERE HA HA HA HA HA HA!

TAKE CARE SWEETIE!

February 20, 2012 at 6:40 p.m.
hambone said...

Wrong again J.R. , domestic oil production has gone up under Obama.

Goggle it yourself!!

February 20, 2012 at 6:48 p.m.
chet123 said...

NOW WHERE WAS I? NOW WHERE WAS I?OHHH!

BLONDEBUTNOTDUMB!....ARE YOU SURE????...I HAVE HEARD OF UNCLE TOM.... BUT DARN IT...I HAVE NEVER WITNESS AN "AUNTIE TOM".....NOW BLONDEBUTNOTDUMB IS DUMB!!! YOU CALL YOURSELF A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN Hmmmm? THAT IS SO FUNNY.....LIBERAL FOUGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS TO BE FIRST CLASS CITIZEN....ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION DIDNT RECOGNIZE YOU AS A FULL HUMAN AS IT DIDNT RECOGNIZE BLACKS...YOU HAD NO VOTING RIGHT...COULDNT ACQUIRE WEALTH..NOT UNLESS YOUR HUBBY GAVE IT TO YOU....HAD NO SAY IN THE HOME....KEPT BARE-FOOTED AND PREGNANT.....YOUR LIFE WAS WORTHLESS! LIBERAL SET YOU FREE....NOW YOU STAND TALL AND TAKE SIDE WITH THE SYSTEM THAT ENSLAVED AND SUPPRESSED YOU.....EVEN NOW THE LAW IS STILL AT YOUR DISADVANTAGE.....HOPE YOU CAN READ.....MAYBE YOU WILL REALIZE YOU ARE MORE AN ENDANGER SPECIES THAN BLACK ARE IN THIS COUNTRY....YOU ARE AT HIGH RISK OF BEING ABUSE BY YOUR SPOUSES WITHOUT JUSTICE BEING PURSUED.....DATA PROVE IT!YOU REMIND ME OF A JEWISH PERSON SIDING WITH THE SS SOLDIER DURING THE HOLOCUST HA HAHA

IF I WERE YOU I WOULD JUST SET ON THE SIDE LINE....I WOULD JUST SHUT MY BIG MOUTH ON LIBERAL/CONSERVATIVE ISSUES! HA HA HA

YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR NAME TO AUNTIE TOM!!!!

February 20, 2012 at 7:03 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "I am the primo Obama basher and I approve jonses comments."

But of course you do. You're as ill informed as he is.

"So once again alprova looks foolish."

Your opinion is as meaningless as his is, so pardon me if I do anything but laugh at both of you.

February 20, 2012 at 7:04 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

hambone said... "domestic oil production has gone up under Obama"

Yes, domestic oil production has gone up in spite of Obama. "Progressives" like to pretend that we are in danger of running out of oil so they can have another crisis for big government to solve with subsidies, regulations and outright control of the energy industry. It is all about political power, not energy security or even the environment. We could easily be paying less than $2/gallon for gas right now if the Demokrats would just fall off the face of the earth and get out of the way of domestic energy production.

The increase in output comes primarily from bringing new extraction technologies to bear in old oil fields, the kind of stuff that does not require a new permit from a government that has been very stingy with permits lately.

February 20, 2012 at 7:10 p.m.
alprova said...

JonRoss wrote: "Nonsense ham - Iran and your lord and savior Barry O's refusal to allow for any type of domestic oil production is the reason prices are rising."

Contrary to your misguided belief, there is plenty of domestic oil being pumped from the ground in this country. What idiots like yourself never seem to understand is that a barrel of oil pumped from the ground in Oklahoma is worth the same as a barrel pumped from the ground in Saudi Arabia.

If you think that any American based oil company is going to discount a barrel of oil domestically produced out of the goodness of their heart or to be patriotic, think again.

They are going to sell it to the highest bidder.

February 20, 2012 at 7:11 p.m.
timbo said...

Haven't been in here for awile. Nothing much has changed. The liberals still hate the conservatives and the conservatives still hate Obama.

Blackwater still takes himself too seriously and talks down to everyone. Alprova is still an arrogant windbag. chet123 is still a racist that is spell and grammar challenged. Where did he learn to write...imbeciles are us?

Clay is still banging the same old gong....libs are great, everyone else is stupid.

I am so calm that everything is as it should be.... I am content in the fact that the sun will rise in the morning as usual.

oh, by the way, the most important fact is still in place,..OBAMA STILL SUCKS.

February 20, 2012 at 7:15 p.m.
chet123 said...

POOR HARP3339....I THINK I HURT HIS FEELING.....NOTICE HE CANT DISPUTE MY ACCUSATION.....WHINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!...THERE HE GOES OFF CRYING.....

THIS DIALOGUE BETWEEN HARP AND MYSELF GOES FAR BACK......I FACT CHECK!!..

SO TO POSTERS...DONT GET YOUR INFORMATION FROM FOX NEWS AND TRY TO MAKE IT FACTS.....THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ONE-SIDED....VERY BIAS...AND NOT CREDIBLE.....

February 20, 2012 at 7:15 p.m.
chet123 said...

AND TIMBO...IS STILL A BUTT KISSER FOR THE RICH AND GREEDY

February 20, 2012 at 7:17 p.m.
timbo said...

chet123...I resent that remark...I might just be a member of the rich and greedy..at least the greedy.

February 20, 2012 at 7:22 p.m.
timbo said...

Hey...let's all chip in and get chet123 a new caps key..his is obviously stuck.

February 20, 2012 at 7:24 p.m.
timbo said...

chet..maybe you didn't understand comments in standard grammar. Let me translate it into chet123inese.

LOL..YOU BE A BIG RACIST...HOW DOES YOU NO WAT IS ON FOXX NEWZ IF YOU DON'T WATCH IT ALL THE TIME...YOU MUST BE A CLOSEET CONSERVATIVE.

I FAT CHECT TOO AND YOURS ARE RONG ALL THE TIME..QIT WATCHIN PMSNBC TO MUCH.

How did I do?

February 20, 2012 at 7:31 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "Yes, domestic oil production has gone up in spite of Obama. "Progressives" like to pretend that we are in danger of running out of oil so they can have another crisis for big government to solve with subsidies, regulations and outright control of the energy industry."

An idiot with a meager education has the cognitive ability to understand that oil is not an infinite commodity. At some point in the future, oil will be all pumped out of the ground. At the rate that it is being pumped out of the ground, the world's oil supply is being estimated by reputable scientists to run out somewhere between 2040 and 2055. The time to prepare for this eventuality is now.

"It is all about political power, not energy security or even the environment. We could easily be paying less than $2/gallon for gas right now if the Demokrats would just fall off the face of the earth and get out of the way of domestic energy production."

You Republican/Conservatives have a habit of driving the car into the ditch. Sorry, but those days are over. Your ignorance about what drives gas prices up and down is quite evident in reading your statement above.

February 20, 2012 at 7:33 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Hey, Romney's Arizona co-chair has obviously found a natural means of contraception! It's a shame that he had to hide his true self from the intolerant Presidential hopeful that he worked for. There's the Stockholm Syndrome we hear about. He's like an African American trying hard to get a racist republican agenda in place at the White House. Cain't understand it.

February 20, 2012 at 7:39 p.m.
chet123 said...

HEY JONSESES...I LOVE THE WAY YOU CHARACTERIZE BLACK PEOPLE AS WANTING HAND-OUT.....HA HA HA HA....I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU BUDDY...BLACK PEOPLE BUILT THIS COUNTRY....NOT LAZY HILLBILLY DIRT FARMERS AS YOURSELF....

THE RICH AND GREEDY HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE BY PAYING CHEAP LABOR OR FREE LABOR....THE SOUTH WAS BUILT ON THE SWEAT OF BLACKS....600,000 AMERICAN DIED IN THE CIVIL WAR WHILE THE RICH AND GREEDY PROFIT FROM SLAVE LABOR.....THIS WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS PEOPLE LIKE JONESES KISSING THE BUTTS OF THE RICH AND GREEDY JUST AS HE IS DOING TODAY....STILL A BUTT KISSER!!!....

SOME OF YOU HAVE REFER TO ME AS A RACIST HA HA HA HA....I HAVE NEVER BROUGHT UP THE RACE CARD THAT WASNT MERITED OR TO REBUTTAL A LIE....NOW IF YOU GOING TO STEP ON MY FEET AND DARE ME TO SAY GET OFF MY FEET YOU ARE A FOOL....THERE'S PEOPLE LIKE JONESES WHO PLAYS THE RACE CARD DAILY....AND I LOVE CALLING HIM OUT....GUESS JONESES NOT USE TO HAVING A BLACK MAN TO PUT HIM IN PLACE HA HA HA HA WITHOUT PROFANITY HA HA HA HA

JONESES SAY OBAMA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HIGH PRICES...HA HA HA...THE CONGRESS IS REPUBLICAN JONESES...GUESS YOU KNOW HOW THE CONGRESS WORKS...FUNNY HOW DUMB YOU REALLY ARE!...YOU CLAIM TO KNOW EVERYTHING....DONT WORRY JONESES...THE DEMOCRATS WILL EVENUALLY NATIONALIZE THE OIL....HA HA HA HA....TAKE IT AWAY FROM THE RICH AND GREEDY(KOCH BRO)HA HA HA

February 20, 2012 at 7:44 p.m.
dude_abides said...

timbo, timbo, timbo... you said you were calm! Now you're breaking your one post oath, displaying racism and misogyny simultaneously, and getting spittle all over your keyboard. Take another Ambien and let it all recede, timbo.

February 20, 2012 at 7:46 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "An idiot with a meager education has the cognitive ability to understand that oil is not an infinite commodity"

An idiot would understand that I did not say oil was an infinite commodity. Dork.

February 20, 2012 at 7:47 p.m.
chet123 said...

TO MY FRIEND TIMBO

GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD LEEEEEEEEEE GOMER...GRANDPA WAS RIGHT...DER BLACK DO HAVE A TAIL...CHUCK CHUCK CHUCK CHUCK

WHY YOU EYEBALLING MY WIFE CHUCK CHUCK CHUCK....TIME TO GO BACK TO MY TRAILER IN SODDY CHUCK CHUCK!

February 20, 2012 at 7:48 p.m.
chet123 said...

THE ONLY IDIOT ON HERE ARE RICH AND GREEDY BUTT KISSING RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN.....WOULD LOVE TO PUT THEM IN A ROCKET AND SHOOT THEM TO THE MOON.....THEY MAKE NO CONTRIBUTION.....JUST PARASITES MAGGOTS

February 20, 2012 at 7:51 p.m.
chet123 said...

TIMBO...I FORGOT YOU HAVE A DEGREE FROM TENNESSEE TEMPLE

February 20, 2012 at 7:54 p.m.
fairmon said...

chet123 said to dbnb when she disagreed with him...

YOU REMIND ME OF A JEWISH PERSON SIDING WITH THE SS SOLDIER DURING THE HOLOCUST HA HAHA

IF I WERE YOU I WOULD JUST SET ON THE SIDE LINE....I WOULD JUST SHUT MY BIG MOUTH ON LIBERAL/CONSERVATIVE ISSUES! HA HA HA

Is that the kind of respect she would get if in your camp? You profess to support women's rights but that must be if they agree with and do what you say? One can treat those they disagree with with respect and dignity except someone like you that lack the intelligence to realize they are not very smart and allow others to manipulate and control them then react angrily of some has a different opinion. 123 my last word to you is you are the most ill informed, racist, prejudice, greedy uneducated person that reaches non factual, partial and misleading conclusions then post many unsupported conclusions as facts that I have ever encountered on this forum. I won't respond to your post but keep posting as you have. They are good material to send to people I know and point out this is a typical Obama loyalist. If there are many people like you supporting him I am joining those that say he has to go.

February 20, 2012 at 7:55 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Wow Chetster,

If the rich and greedy were idiots I am sure they would be serving your brilliant self, rather than the other way around!

February 20, 2012 at 7:57 p.m.
chet123 said...

I CAN TELL WHEN I'M SCORING POINTS...THE RIGHT-WING NUT BUTT KISSER CHANGE THE SUBJECT AND TURN INTO ENGLISH PROFESSORS HA HA HA HA HA.....THIS IS AN OLD TRICK THEY PLAY WHEN I'M KICKING THAT BIGOTRY BUTT

February 20, 2012 at 7:57 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "An idiot would understand that I did not say oil was an infinite commodity. Dork."

Do you realize how often it is lately that you find it necessary to have to clarify something you write?

You wrote and I quote, "..."Progressives" like to pretend that we are in danger of running out of oil..."

Are you going to redefine the word "pretend" to mean something other than your ladeling an assertion that the world is not going to run out of oil?

Don't think you're going to drag me into another back and forth exchange about what you meant. It's more than a little obvious this time that you meant to write and what you did write.

And you have the audacity to call me the "dork."

You wrote it. I didn't.

February 20, 2012 at 8:06 p.m.
dude_abides said...

CHET! Stop what you are doing! Don't you see that you're going to cause harp3339 to tilt the election with his considerable clout? He's obviously on the fence right now, judging by his last 1000 posts. He could doom our cause if you set him off and he goes viral over in ChristianMingle.com! Just teasing harp, don't get a cerebral vortex.

February 20, 2012 at 8:08 p.m.
BobMKE said...

Contraceptives, birth control. The libs know how to get votes which is by offering people things for free. Hey, it is dangerous driving on bald tires in the winter. Free tires for everybody. Hey we have free candy for you. The ignorant people will take anything for free and they don't realize that their freedom is slowly going away. Little by little, bit by bit. Then they will say, what the hell happened? By any means = Saul Alinsky.

To my fellow Conservatives. When you use logic, historial facts, and common sense against a liberal they will just beat you to death with their ignorance. Then they will call you names because because they have no logical response. Liberals run on emotion and Conservatives are logical.

February 20, 2012 at 8:10 p.m.
chet123 said...

HARP3339...IS THATS THE BEST YOU CAN DO????...LET "BBND" TALK OR POST FOR HERSELF.....SHE MENTIONED MY NAME "CHET"(POSTING FEB.20 11:12AM)...SHE LISTEN TOO MUCH TO THE RIGHT-WING NUTS..SHE MUST THINK I DONT READ HA HA HA HA....IF SHE CAN NAME CALL AND TELL LIES...THEN SHE NEED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE PUSH-BACK......SHE IS AN EXAMPLE OF REPUBLICAN WHO SHOOT-OFF THEIR MOUTH BUT ARE THIN SKINNED......CRY-BABY...

SOMEONE TELL THAT NUT "BBND" SHE IS THE BIGGEST BENIFACTOR OF THE LIBERAL MOVEMENT......THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF A BALOON-HEAD....NOTHING BUT AIR BETWEEN THE EARS

February 20, 2012 at 8:14 p.m.
chet123 said...

BOBMIKE...YOU SAID LOGIC!! HA HA HA HA

BOBMIKE GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE WHERE THE CONSERVATIVE HAVE DONE ANYTHING...ANYTHING FOR AMERICA....PLEASEEEEEEE TELL ME...TELL ME!

February 20, 2012 at 8:16 p.m.
chet123 said...

OH YEAH I KNOW ....CREATED AN OLIGARDPHY GOVERNMENT...WHERE THE CORPORATIONS ARE TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE GOVERNMENT....THE LAST TIME THAT HAPPEN WE HAD A CIVIL WAR....

February 20, 2012 at 8:19 p.m.
chet123 said...

THE COTTON BARONS HAD SO MUCH MONEY THEY SECEDE FROM THE UNION..AND CREATED THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT..600,000 PEOPLE DIED.....BOBMIKE YOU ARE A PAWN!...A BIG SUCKER!....YOU MAY HAVE A SMALL BUSINESS OR A MOM AND POP BUSINESS...AND MAY THINK YOU ARE PART OF THE 1%...BUT THE HUGE CONGLOMERATE WILL RUN YOU LITTLE BUSINESS INTO THE GROUND.THE WAL-MARK AND OTHER BIG BUSINESS WILL HAVE LOOP-HOLES FOR THEMSELVE THAT YOU WILL NOT BE ENTITLE TO....THEY ARE NOT SMALL BUSINESS FRIENDLY.....DONT BE A FOOL!

February 20, 2012 at 8:29 p.m.
chet123 said...

HEY BOBMIKE...TELL YOUR NEXT RIGHT-WING NUT BUTT KISSER OF THE RICH AND GREEDY TO GET A NUMBER....THEY CANT JUST BREAK INTO LINE..THEY GOT TO WAIT THEIR TURN..TELL THEM TO GO TO THE END OF THE LINE....HA HA HA HA HA

February 20, 2012 at 8:33 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Dork, The world will never run out of oil we will only make it rare enough we can no longer afford to extract it.

The sooner we get close to that point, the sooner disposible plastic bottles will go away and stop littering the world.

February 20, 2012 at 8:39 p.m.
Johnnie5000 said...

chet123 = Look down at your hands. That button on the left hand side between "Shift" and "Tab" is the "Caps Lock" button. Please press that button.

There's an unwritten rule of the internet, you type in all caps, more than once, then nothing you have to say is important. No one will read it. I haven't. I just know it's in all caps. It could be important, but I could give two sh!ts because you don't know how to type like a civilized person.

I could really care less about your political opinion, just hit the damn caps lock button.

February 20, 2012 at 8:41 p.m.
chet123 said...

THE LIBERALS HAVE MADE THIS COUNTRY GREAT....THE ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION WAS FLAWED.....LIBERAL HELP TO MAKE IT A COMPLETE DOCUMENT...IF CONSERVATIVE HAD THEIR WAY THIS COUNTRY WOULD BE A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.....ALL THE GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENT WAS MADE BY MIDDLE CLASS...THE GREAT SOLDIERS AS ALVIN YORK ARE FROM WORKING CLASS FAMILY....NOT THE RICH AND GREEDY....

DONT KNOW WHY BOBMIKE AND OTHERS ARE OBSESSED WITH BUTT KISSING THE RICH AND GREEDY

February 20, 2012 at 8:41 p.m.
Johnnie5000 said...

The liberals stole your caps lock button, didn't they?

February 20, 2012 at 8:43 p.m.
chet123 said...

JOHNNIE5000...IF YOU GOT SOMETHING TO SAY THEN SAY IT BUDDY....AND STOP LYING BY SAYING YOU WONT READ CAPS...YOU ALREADY HAVE FOOL!

February 20, 2012 at 8:49 p.m.
Johnnie5000 said...

Ok you got me, I read the last two after my first post. I thought i was pretty clear in requesting that you press your caps lock button instead of typing in all caps. Only violent and ignorant savages type in all caps. We're civilized people here in Chattanooga.

February 20, 2012 at 8:50 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "Dork, The world will never run out of oil we will only make it rare enough we can no longer afford to extract it."

I have little doubt that the above sentence makes perfect sense to yourself, but I am equally certain that no one with any intelligence could begin to make sense of it.

This is why the world needs progressive people to run this nation against the wishes and whims of those who are regressive in their understanding of reality and in what needs to be done.

February 20, 2012 at 8:54 p.m.
chet123 said...

DID YOU SAY WE'RE CIVILIZED IN CHATTANOOGA? HA HA HA HA HA...I CAN SEE YOU HAVENT TRAVEL OUTSIDE CHATTANOOGA....HA HA HA HA

LOOK BUDDY IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY...SAY IT! SAY IT!

February 20, 2012 at 8:55 p.m.
chet123 said...

HELLO ALPROVA....HOLD THE FORT DOWN....I HAVE TO GO...SEE YOU LATER

February 20, 2012 at 8:56 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Johnnie5000... did you say that you could care less? Like, it is possible that there might be a subject that you care less about than Chet's political opinion? I mean, if you could not possibly care less about a subject, then you would probably say you couldn't care less, right?

CHET REFERENCES ALVIN YORK! I AM ENTHRALLED!

February 20, 2012 at 8:58 p.m.
Johnnie5000 said...

Yes, I am saying it, HIT THE GODD@MN CAPS LOCK BUTTON. There, that's in all caps, AM I SPEAKING YOUR LANGUAGE NOW?

Sorry. I apologize if my cynicism doesn't translate well onto printed word.

February 20, 2012 at 8:58 p.m.
Johnnie5000 said...

dude_abides ~ Maybe. Depends on how you look at it. Colloquialism's are fun.

February 20, 2012 at 9:01 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Dork,

I am sure you don't understand it and I'm also sure it would be a waste of my time to try to explain it to you. You have the mind of an accountant living within the rules fed to you by your masters. It is not fair to expect you to understand.

February 20, 2012 at 9:04 p.m.
dude_abides said...

J5k...you can't say that again.

February 20, 2012 at 9:07 p.m.

Are you a progressive, Alprova??

"progressive" people seem to have no problem with others giving up their freedom and individuality. That's my take on it. If Obama is an example of a "progressive" then I'll take the opposite.

Leftists seem to always fear Christians shoving their faith down their throats, yet you don't mind Obama shoving secularism down a church's throat.

If birth control is against the Catholic Church's doctrine, just accept it and move on. They don't have the power to force you to not use it. They don't even have the power to force their own members to not use it. It is their official policy though. Are they not entitled to their beliefs. Do Catholics force atheists to participate in communion?

February 20, 2012 at 9:48 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "I am sure you don't understand it and I'm also sure it would be a waste of my time to try to explain it to you."

Try as you may, I doubt there is a logical explanation of that which you wrote.

"You have the mind of an accountant living within the rules fed to you by your masters. It is not fair to expect you to understand."

You're just full of gibberish tonight, aren't you?

Tell me something. When you are sitting around in that room you live in, dipping your fingers into that jar of Vaseline every time Mr. Bennett publishes a new cartoon, does it ever occur to you that you might be just a wee bit crazy?

Probably not.

February 20, 2012 at 10:17 p.m.

BigRidgePatriot, you may think it is hyperbole, but I think that the Republican endorsement of China and its business practices is a deceptive bit of propaganda.

But let's see, why don't you go back to the November debates, see the idea of being like China with no unions, welfare or minimum wage get cheered. Throw in a dash of no environmental regulations and no worker safety for good measure.

There's been more since then, but eh, it seems you want too be more like China too, as you are praising them...what exactly do you think they offer? It's certainly not the libertarian paradise.

Besides, investing in China does have a cost, numerous companies have expressed concerns about regulations and intellectual piracy, see the Chamber of Commerce report. Opportunity and danger, and not all of it is ethical competition. It's not fun when somebody steals your technology to make profits with your work.

February 20, 2012 at 10:30 p.m.

Alprova, there is a logic to it. Zeno's.

In a race, the quickest runner can never overtake the slowest, since the pursuer must first reach the point whence the pursued started, so that the slower must always hold a lead.

To which the appropriate response is to kick the philosopher down a well and shout that such conduct is appropriate in the named vicinity.

February 20, 2012 at 10:54 p.m.
MTJohn said...

tu_quoque said...A rose by any other name?

Spoken by the voice of poison ivy.

February 20, 2012 at 11:03 p.m.
alprova said...

bbnd wrote: "Are you a progressive, Alprova??"

That all depends on your definition of a progressive.

The definition of a progressive: "favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters."

I am definitely a progressive as defined by dictionary.com. I doubt that I am a progressive as you may define the word.

"..."progressive" people seem to have no problem with others giving up their freedom and individuality. That's my take on it. If Obama is an example of a "progressive" then I'll take the opposite."

Just as I thought. You don't know how to define a progressive.

"Leftists seem to always fear Christians shoving their faith down their throats, yet you don't mind Obama shoving secularism down a church's throat."

That is a baseless charge. President Obama didn't write the rule or try to shove a thing down any church's throat. The rule in question was written 6 months ago and was implemented by Kathleen Sebelius of the HHS.

"If birth control is against the Catholic Church's doctrine, just accept it and move on. They don't have the power to force you to not use it. They don't even have the power to force their own members to not use it. It is their official policy though. Are they not entitled to their beliefs. Do Catholics force atheists to participate in communion?"

You're still shooting blanks. The Catholic Church was specifically exempted from the rule. When it became a problem for businesses owned by Catholics or the Church, Obama stepped in and offered to shift the responsibility to insurance companies. Problem solved. All the interested parties were a-okay with that proposal.

It is people like you, eternal Obama bashers, having no dog in this hunt whatsoever, who have taken it on themselves to use the issue as another excuse to criticize and to condemn the President.

Give up the ghost. The more you harp on this already resolved issue, the more silly you look. This is no longer a cultural or theological issue. It has become just another anti-Obama issue.

February 20, 2012 at 11:06 p.m.
alprova said...

tu_quoque wrote: "It would be nice and helpful if by chance you could provide the part of the law that dictates the ultrasound must be of the invasive type."

No problem.

The proposed amendment (HB462) to SB484, which failed to pass, included wording specifically exempting a procedure named a transvaginal ultrasound or other ultrasound method requiring vaginal penetration, being performed without a woman's written consent.

It further would have allowed the physician to opt not to do the vaginal ultrasound. The amendment failed on 64-34 vote.

Because the great majority of abortions occur during the first 12 weeks of a pregnancy, this means that most women will be forced to have a transvaginal procedure, in which a probe is inserted into the vagina, and then moved around until an ultrasound image is produced. External methods of ultrasound will not produce a viable image of an embryo in the uterus during the early stages of pregnancy.

The failure of the specific amendment to have been passed means the new law provides that women seeking an abortion in Virginia will be forcibly penetrated without their consent for no medical reason.

February 20, 2012 at 11:34 p.m.
fairmon said...

alpro..Is ACHA a law or not? Why is anyone exempt? Think about it, if insurers provide birth control at no cost to those filing a claim who will ultimately pay for the prescribed medicine? You know the insurers will recover their cost through policy premiums. Could it be the responsibility was shifted to those not exempt? If the millions with exemptions don't participate there will be cost going to those purchasing health care polcies including those on medicare. The POTUS doesn't have time to get in the weeds on every issue and depends on his cabinet and advisers. It appears he is getting some bad advice from some that may be more politically motivated than he is. Once the first exemption was granted the dominos began falling. What was wrong with his original position? Catholics still had the choice not to use birth control? One article said those of the Muslim faith were exempt in the bill when ititially passed. I tried and thought I had read the screwed up thing but I don't recall that being in it. There is a pretty good list of other surprises that will surface in 2013 and 2014 but the ACHA will belong to everyone by then and like it or not we will have birthed (pun intended) what many will think is a god awful ugly baby but it cannot be ignored and will be ours to love with some wondering if abortion would have been a better choice.

alpro also said.....

The rule in question was written 6 months ago and was implemented by Kathleen Sebelius of the HHS. It was written and approved so why should she assume anything other than a rule is a rule or a law is a law from which no one should be exempt. She probably was confident those writing the rule had properly consulted with those they should and confirmed it was constitutional and legal. I agree with her impliment it timely as written, instead of all the subsequent pandering and flip flopping and shifting the responsibility and cost to others in a way that is smoke and mirrows accounting. Screw the republicans and their meaningless rhetoric and charges they are campaigning.

February 21, 2012 at 12:10 a.m.
eastridge8 said...

chet123...BEHAVE yourself! People on here have a right to their opinion...you don't have to take it so personally just because they disagree with you...

Obama IS one of the worst presidents ever! And I've been around long enough to see them...and they were all white so don't tell me it's all racists who don't like him...

Johnnie5000...I told you....IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

harp...(good post harp for 12:10 am)...et al...this is insanity...sign off and don't respond to him...it only makes things worse....(you just have to shrug your shoulders and go on...)

Name calling doesn't solve anything, it only makes you look bad...and that goes for ALL on here...

..but as I said before...HE WILL ARGUE THE POINT FOREVER!! .....LITERALLY!

February 21, 2012 at 11:44 a.m.
chet123 said...

HELLO EASTRIDGE......YOU SAID SOMETHING INTERESTING.....YOU SAID THEY WERE ALL WHITE....THIS IS ALL THE OLDER WHITE GENERATION KNOW...LET ME ENLIGHTEN YOUR REPUBLICAN BUDDIES....I VOTED FOR HILLARY CLINTON IN THE PRIMARY(NOT OBAMA).....IT WASNT BECAUSE OBAMA COUNLDNT DO THE JOB...BUT IT WAS BECAUSE I KNEW AMERICAN HAD A OLDER WHITE GENERATION WHO COULDNT ACCEPT IT..OBAMA IS A NICE GUY....HE DONT PLAY HARD-BALL LIKE BILL CLINTON DID 1992--2000(REMEMBER CLINTON BROKE INTO THE FBI FILES HA HA HA)...I HAVE LIVED AND WORKED WITH THE OLDER WHITE GENERATION..THEY WERE CHILDREN BORN DOING THE SEGREGATION ERA...THEY ARE ROOTED IN THEIR PREJUDICE(IT DOESNT MAKE THEM BAD)..OBAMA WON WITH THE YOUNGER OPEN MINDED WHITE VOTERS..THE OLDER WHITE GENERATION ARE PEOPLE LIKE JONESES,HARP3339....EVEN THEIR PLACE OF WORSHIP ARE TAINTED WITH BIAS...THE GOOD HONEST CANDID PASTORS WOULD GET FIRED HA HA HA ...

I ALSO LOOK AT IT THIS WAY....THE 43 PRESIDENTS BEFORE OBAMA WAS "WHITE MALES"..SOME OF THEM WAS GOOD SOME EVEN GREAT...BUT THERE WERE A LOT OF HORRIBLE PRESIDENTS ALSO....HERBERT HOOVER WAS ONE...THE MOST RECENT WAS GEORGE W.BUSH....WHETHER GOOD OR BAD THEY WERE GIVEN A CHANCE....GEORGE W. BUSH AS BAD AS HE WAS AS A PRESIDENT WAS GIVEN TWO TERMS(YOU DIDNT DARE CRITICIZE HIM...ASK DAN RATHER)....DIDNT HEAR A PEEK OUT OF THE SAME POSTERS...43 PRESIDENTIAL TERMS ...ALL WHITE MALES...THATS 100%.....IF I HAD THAT KIND OF ADVANTAGE I WOULD KEEP MY MOUTH CLOSE....ATLEAST BE A LITTTLE SENSITIVE....OHHH...NOOOOOOOOOOO! ON THE FIRST DAY BOOSTING ABOUT REPLACING HIM...LYING SAYING HES NOT A AMERICAN...HES A TERRORIST,,,HES ARAB,,,HES COMMUNIT,,,HES MUSLIM..ECT...ON AND ON AND ON....

AS MITCH MCCONNELL(SEN FROM KY) SAID ...ITS THEIR #1 OBJECTIVE....NOT TO WIN BACK CONGRESS...NOT THE ECONOMY....NOT THE DEFICIT....BUT TO MAKE SURE OBAMA A ONE TERM PRESIDENT.....SO I'M JUST COUNTERING REPUBLICANS POSTERS.....AND IT DRIVES THEM CRAZY....MAYBE BECAUSE THEY ARE USE TO CARPET BOMBING DEMOCRATS WITH THEIR PROPAGANDA AND LIES....AND NOT GETTING ANY PUSH-BACK.....

MAYBE REPUBLICAN ARE USE TO HAVING THINGS THEIR WAY,,,,,,THEY ARE BIG LIARS.....THE NATIONAL MEDIA IS CONTROL BY REPUBLICANS....THEY DOMINATE THE RADIO AIR WAVES; THE 24 HRS 7 DAYS A WEEK TV TALK AND MEWS; THE PRINT ECT....

February 22, 2012 at 8:48 a.m.
chet123 said...

EASTRIDGE..DONT GET IN THE MIDDLE..LET THE RIGHT-WINGERS MAKE THEIR OWN REBUTTALS..YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON...AND NOT ALL OF THE OLDER WHITE GENERATION HOLD THAT VEIW....MANY OF THEM ARE PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL....I HAVE MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY THATS WHITE AND I LOVE THEM TO DEATH...

YOU SAID PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO THEIR OPINIONS...I AGREE EASTRIDGE!!BUT THEY DONT HAVE A RIGHT TO THEIR OWN FACTS....

I CAN DEBATE AN ISSUE WITHOUT GETTING PERSONAL....BUT IF THE RIGHT-WING POSTERS COME AT ME IN A PERSONAL WAY...SORRY! BUT I WILL GET IN THE MUD WITH THEM...I'N NOT UNILATERALLY DISARMING HA HA HA

I JUST CHALLENGE THE UNTRUES....WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO YOU....YOU ARE ATLEAST REASONABLE....YOU DONT THROW STONES FROM A GLASS HOUSE LIKE SOME OF THESE RIGHT-WINGER WITH A PAPER "THIN-SKIN"

February 22, 2012 at 9:33 a.m.
stanleyyelnats said...

so now liberals are being accused by Republicans of forcing Republican use of contraceptives.

liberals are forcing social conservatives to use contraception.

does someone have an example of a liberal forcing a conservative's use of contraception? or is this argument of Republicans like their voter fraud argument? no merit! where is the verisimilitude of their argument? not necessary i guess!

clicky thingy

February 24, 2012 at 7:35 a.m.
eastridge8 said...

See? chet is not a bad guy...just opinionated...like us all.

So can we put this whole conversation to bed now? Please! I think everyone has had his/her say on the subject.

Can I get an AMEN! on it?

February 24, 2012 at 2:41 p.m.

NEW - COMPLETE COVERAGE OF EURO-CRISES(BUREAUCRAZY) vs 2012(2008) US ELECTIONS FRAUD(remember Kennedy!!?) !!! FIND OUT WHY HOPE DIES LAST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtWCcCkBeYo

RECENT FLORIDA(will fluctuate, but same story elsewhere will repeat) VOTING POLES HAVE SHOWN MORMON ROMNEY AS LEADING CANDIDATE WITH 47% APPROVAL RATE(in reality 7% only), GINGRICH 32% (in reality 14%), SANATORUM 14% (reality 32%), AND RON PAUL WITH 7 % WHILE IN REALITY WAS THE HIGHEST AT 47% !!!

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WHEN TAKING IN CONSIDERATION RON PAUL(chameleon), PRESENTS THIS http://www.chron.com/news/article/Paul-Immigration-not-solved-by-barbed-wire-guns-2918313.php FACT WHICH BECOMES EXTREMELY BOTHERING ISSUE INVOLVING http://notethicsbutbutchery.blogspot.com/

US government consist of Obama alike lawyers(liars), Ron Paul alike doctors, and Gingrich/Sanatorum alike family members of affected(brain disease) individuals who have helped pass CRIMINAL bill against target whites. CRIME NO DIFFERENT FROM ROMNEY(Bush screwed US for Obama and now it's Romney's turn) WHOSE FATHER EXCELLED AFTER GM WAS DELIBERATELY BANKRUPT = AMERICA TODAY(soon to be success based on previous sabotage) !!

UNITED STATES PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2012(2008) ARE FRAUD !!! VOID THEM AND DEMAND DAVID DUKE FOR USA PRESIDENT - NOW !!!

IT WILL BE FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE KENNEDY THAT YOU WILL ACTUALLY VOTE !!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtWCcCkBeYo

February 24, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.
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