published Sunday, July 1st, 2012

Record Heat

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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AndrewLohr said...

Ha.

July 1, 2012 at 12:04 a.m.

Must have been made in China.

Next time, stick with a quality Coca-Cola antique!

July 1, 2012 at 12:19 a.m.
nucanuck said...

The increase in summer temperatures in Chattanooga since my youth has been dramatic. When we could no longer walk the streets in summer without feeling heat distress was when we decided to seek out a temperate climate.

Today I worked in the garden all day...cool (68) and no bugs. Winters are mild, but longer than in Chattanooga.

July 1, 2012 at 12:27 a.m.
tderng said...

its the democrats fault!

figured I wold draw first blood. haha

July 1, 2012 at 12:29 a.m.
dude_abides said...

I hope everyone is drinking plenty of water this weekend. Of course, if you are a Romneyjerk, you can continue to drink the Kool-Aid.

July 1, 2012 at 12:33 a.m.

tderng, unfortunately we can't blame the politicians in DC for producing all this hot air. The wind direction is wrong.

OTOH, we have had a lot of local politicians running for election...

July 1, 2012 at 12:38 a.m.
alprova said...

It's proof that global warming does indeed exist.

It's nearly 1:00 am in the morning and it's still 91 degrees outside.

What the heck?

July 1, 2012 at 12:42 a.m.
shifarobe said...

Bull$h!t

July 1, 2012 at 1:06 a.m.

alprova, shh, the right-wingers probably won't remember when they proclaimed that one cold day disproved global warming completely.

July 1, 2012 at 1:38 a.m.
shifarobe said...

They call it the SUN, morons. Or, SOL, as you leftists prefer. We're powerless to control it. I hate to break it to you idiots but BAROKE INSANE OBLEEDUSDRY can't control weather. Although the methane from all the bull$h!t BO piles up is pretty nauseating!! The "global warming" religion is second only to ISLAM in attracting bullies!!

July 1, 2012 at 2:46 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

THE TRIUMPH OF MYTHOLOGY OVER PROFIT MARGINS

Folks like shifarobe think the notion of global climate change has a subversive political agenda. They think they are both cleaver and funny by embracing the 'flat earth' side of the argument.

Since 1990, sea levels have gone up about two inches around the world, but in Norfolk, Virginia it's risen 4.8 inches. In fact, there's a 600 mile stretch from Boston to North Carolina that's seen coastal waters rising at a faster pace than the rest of the world. Philadelphia is up 3.7 inches, New York 2.8 inches.

In fact, New York City's Office of Emergency Management predicts sea levels 2 to 5 inches higher in the next ten years and 7 to 12 inches higher by the 2050.

One oil company executive admitted that fossil fuels may cause global warming but argued that people can easily adapt to warmer climate and rising tides. How comforting.

No, the only subversive political agenda in the global warming argument is perpetrated by tea baggers and their profit driven desire to eliminate all energy related government regulation. People like the Koch brothers are loathe to any efforts that may crimp their profit margin and use their billion$ to fund efforts to undermine serious scientific data.

But okay, I'll turn the argument around and pose this question: What's wrong with energy independence?

Forget the argument that climate change is manmade. Forget the notion that we won't run out of oil and coal for centuries. Forget the idea that we can develop new technologies that will provide our children and grandchildren with clean energy.

True, since Obama took office we EXPORT MORE OIL THAN WE IMPORT, but we still rely too heavily on OPEC. Tea baggers love to moan and groan about alternative energy companies receiving government funding, but say nothing about the $5 BILLION Washington forks over to oil companies each year. And by Washington I mean me and you and all of us.

But hey, I'm not a scientist. I find the evidence compelling, but that's not the only reason why I want to develop alternative energy more quickly.

I can't wait to tell OPEC to stick it.

The only people who can possible love the idea of importing so much of our oil from the middle east are oil companies and terrorists. Now that oil prices have seen a temporary price drop in the face of a global economic slowdown it's suddenly not so urgent.

When prices start to soar again you'll all be hopping mad and blaming Obama.

Here's the link if you would like to read why the ocean is rising faster along the East Coast than the rest of the world.

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate1597.html

July 1, 2012 at 4:17 a.m.
anniebelle said...

I see the usual climate scholars can't resist showing their utter denial of truth. Oh well, until we, as humans, show concern we'll just go along until it's too late, that may be now, and we can all die in our own ignorance and stubborness.

July 1, 2012 at 5:39 a.m.
alprova said...

Just to be clear, I am not really suggesting that this week's heat wave is strictly due to global warming, but it does make one wonder what the heck is going on.

If memory serves me correct, there were similar heat waves in the South with temperatures that were way above 100 in 1952 and 1930.

Whatever is driving them up this high, I sure wish it would make its way on outta here.

July 1, 2012 at 6:06 a.m.
anniebelle said...

No, temps on a daily basis is an indicator, that's called weather. When a definite pattern develops, maybe not in your backyard, but globally, that's climate. Rising sea levels str already happening, especially in Virginia, but on the plus side, we may have beachfront property in a few years in good ol' chatnooga.

July 1, 2012 at 6:31 a.m.
conservative said...

That missing Republican symbol sure was a surprise to me.

July 1, 2012 at 6:49 a.m.
EaTn said...

Between the farce of using our corn crops to produce ethanol for gas and the extended hot weather and drought into our farm belt, be prepared to pay a larger chunk of your wages (providing you still have a job) at the supermarket in the coming months.

July 1, 2012 at 6:50 a.m.
joneses said...

Why is it these pathetic parasitic, freeloading liberals only whine about global warming when it is hot but you never hear from them when it is cold? When the temperatures get back to normal in a couple of days you will not hear a word from these leaches.

July 1, 2012 at 7:05 a.m.
potcat said...

I have already watered and worked in the garden this AM. I try to conserve as much water as i can, but my flowers and tomato plants are thirsty. I have been busy canning and freezing and am very thankful for a bumper crop. I give a lot to family and friends. I have enough squash to feed Chattanooga, just kidding but i have a lot. I have cooked squash in every way posible and the hubby is getting tired of it. He's getting fried today!

I read an article last week where the East Coast is losing shoreline at a rapid rate, New England and the cape are really losing it and are afraid of flooding coming in the near future.

How or why anyone would not want to do every thing posible to make our Earth "Green" is crazy, why take the chance of doing nothing because you don't believe in Global Warming, do it anyway, we only have one Earth, why not take care of it.

July 1, 2012 at 7:27 a.m.
joneses said...

Obama’s Impeachable Actions The oath of office of the President of the United States is simple and concise. It reads: "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."           Instead of living up to that oath, President Obama has actively attempted to subvert, ignore, and completely destroy large parts of the Constitution. I believe the President of the United States is well aware of what he is doing, and it is completely intentional. Listed below are what I believe are impeachable offenses and the list continues to grow.            1. President Obama has appointed numerous people to cabinet level positions without the advice and consent of the U.S. Senate, as is required by the Constitution. These individuals are given extraordinary power and independent funding, and are not under the scrutiny of Congress. The fact that Obama calls them Czars does not make them legal.             2. The push by Pres. Obama to pass health care legislation in the Congress of the United States that he was fully aware was unconstitutional. He has continued to use his powers and executive branch of government to implement this legislation despite the fact that a federal judge has declared the entire law unconstitutional, and ordered that it not be implemented.             3. Despite the fact that the United States Senate refused to pass the Cap and Trade bill, the President has ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to use regulations to implement key portions of the bill, including those regulating so-called greenhouse gases. Obama himself has acknowledged that this will force energy prices in this country to skyrocket. He is taking these actions in direct defiance of the will of the people of the United States, the will of Congress, and the Constitution.             4. Through the Department of the Interior Obama has placed a moratorium on offshore oil drilling or exploration off both the Atlantic and Pacific coasts of the United States and in parts of the Gulf of Mexico. He has also prohibited new drilling exploration in any states in the United States. These actions by the Department of Interior have continued in direct defiance of several court orders issued by a federal judge in New Orleans, Louisiana that declared that the department had no authority to issue such a moratorium. In fact the Secretary of the Department of the Interior has been held in contempt by the same judge.

July 1, 2012 at 7:31 a.m.
joneses said...

n held in contempt by the same judge.             5. Instead of allowing American companies to drill for oil domestically, Obama has betrayed the American people and authorized loans of billions of dollars to countries like Brazil and Mexico so that they can drill for oil, and then sell that oil to the United States. This will dramatically increase our dependence on foreign nations such as Venezuela, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, and even Libya that do not serve the interest of America or the American people.             6. President Obama has abdicated his responsibility to enforce the laws of the United States against illegal immigration. He has virtually declared our southern border an open border by declaring certain areas of federal land in states like Arizona as off-limits to federal, state, and local authorities. This is despite the fact that these areas are being used to bring in thousands of illegal immigrants, massive amounts of drugs, and also being used by foreign terrorists to infiltrate the United States. He has also ordered the border patrol not to arrest most illegal immigrants entering the country, and has stopped deportation proceedings against thousands of people in this country illegally. He is bypassing the Congress of the United States which has sole authority over immigration matters.             7. The President and his Atty. Gen. Eric Holder have clearly violated their oath of office by joining with foreign countries in a lawsuit against the sovereign state of Arizona to stop it from enforcing the federal immigration laws.             8. President Obama has ordered the Federal Communications Commission to adopt regulations giving the federal government control of the Internet and its contents, including providing Obama with a kill switch that gives him authority to shut down the Internet if he sees fit. This is in direct violation of a decision by the United

July 1, 2012 at 7:31 a.m.
joneses said...

States Supreme Court that the FCC has no Constitutional authority to control the Internet.             9. One of the paramount responsibilities of the President of the United States and his executive branch of government is to enforce and defend laws adopted by Congress unless they are declared unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court. Obama has decided that he should ignore this Constitutional mandate, and that as President he is more powerful than either the Congress of the United States or the Supreme Court. He has unilaterally declared that the Defense of Marriage Act passed by the Congress is unconstitutional, and further declared that he will not have the Justice Department defend it against lawsuits. He has essentially said that he is the supreme ruler of the United States, and that the Congress and the Federal Judiciary are irrelevant.             10. It has recently been learned that acting through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms the Obama administration has been involved for the past several months in getting legitimate and law-abiding gun store owners along our southern border to supply weapons to straw buyers that the government knew would deliver them to the drug cartels in Mexico. This was billed as a sting operation against the cartels when in fact it was designed to produce fraudulent data showing that large numbers of weapons were going from the United States to the Mexican drug dealers. This data was then to be used, and is being used, to try to justify new gun control regulations to limit the rights of American citizens to keep and bear arms. It has nothing to do with arresting members of the drug operations. The administration has, in effect, armed our enemies, and one border patrol agent has already been killed by one of these weapons. Now, he intends to impose gun control laws by Executive order so he will not have to deal with Congress.  

July 1, 2012 at 7:33 a.m.
joneses said...
  1. The President of the United States is not authorized by the Constitution to take our nation to war without the consent of the Congress of the United States. The only exception to this is the authority granted to the President by Congress under the War Powers Act. This law allows the President to take immediate action without the consent of Congress if there is an imminent threat to the security of the United States, or its citizens. Although there was clearly no such imminent threat caused by the Civil War in Libya, the President committed members of the United States military to combat missions in a foreign country without the consent of Congress. He based his authority on a United Nations resolution, and a resolution by the Arab League.            12. Last but not the least, of my dirty dozen of impeachable offenses, is the fact that since taking office the President has used executive orders, laws pushed through Congress in the dark of night, and administrative actions by his departments to nationalize and control automobile manufacturers, banks, insurance companies, and portions of the healthcare industry. This is designed to take our country from a free enterprise economy to a socialist economy. There is absolutely no authority in the Constitution of the United States that allows the President to do this.
July 1, 2012 at 7:34 a.m.
fairmon said...

Donate a fan and do what you can to help those that need it. The return on such an investment is great. Temperature and climate fluctuations have occurred through out history and will continue regardless of what people do or don't do. Moderation and responsible behavior is not a bad approach.

July 1, 2012 at 7:35 a.m.
dougmusn said...

@joneses: We don't whine when it's cold because it seems it never is.

@blackwater48: ditto! We have a defense budget more than the 26 next highest defense budgets in the world combined (25 of whom are our allies). We have about 5% of the world's population and use about 35% of the world's energy. We are in two strokes funding both sides of the "war on terror". Conservation is RISK FREE. [An aside that has surprised me recently: estimates are as high as 50% of the greenhouse gases in the world derive from the production and use of livestock. Eating two fewer cheeseburgers a week (or the equivalent amount of animal protein) would have the same effect in America as making all the SUVs in the country vanish overnight. Try swallowing that!]

July 1, 2012 at 7:38 a.m.
joneses said...

dougman,

Wow, you really are misinformed. Did you not hear about the record low temperatures in Alaska this past winter? So your solution is to destroy the American way of life? Do not worry, you are getting much needed help from obastard and the rest of your little liberal politician Gods who continue to consume more resources and have a much bigger carbon footprint than any of us will ever have. There is nothing man can do about natural climate change.

July 1, 2012 at 7:59 a.m.
joneses said...

Obama's death panels return: Rationing is at heart of President's health plan BY ANDREA TANTAROS DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Thursday, May 12, 2011 There is a dirty secret about health care that President Obama hopes will escape the headlines. In his newly released plan to "reform" Medicare as part of overall deficit reduction, Obama has punted actual cost-cutting and instead proposed a panel - the Independent Payment Advisory Board - to recommend savings for the financially doomed program. Translation: Welcome to the world of rationing.

The board, which was an original part of Obamacare (remember the death panel debate?), consists of 15 unelected bureaucrats who will have unchecked, binding power in the interest of supposedly greater efficiency and lower costs. That means that instead of you or your doctor making decisions about your care, a group of Washington micromanagers will do it for you.

July 1, 2012 at 7:59 a.m.
anniebelle said...

You can lead a fool to facts, but you can't make them think.

July 1, 2012 at 8:10 a.m.
WHS1970 said...

Good morning jonesey and is'nt it a lovely day?

July 1, 2012 at 8:13 a.m.
LibDem said...

I think these "15 unelected bureaucrats" are currently serving as the board of my insurance company.

Monsieur Chifferobe, you French are foul mouthed.

July 1, 2012 at 8:13 a.m.
dougmusn said...

@joneses: (Your fingers must be tired today). "Your solution is to destroy the American way of life?" I sure hope the American way of life is not what it would seem to be to you--use it all up because I can and damn the consequences. My shibboleths come from a Yankee mother--Use it up/Wear it out/Make it do/or do without--and a sense of stewardship for the earth--we only get one earth; we should tread lightly upon it. I actually DO agree with you on one thing: "There is nothing man can do about natural climate change." I just do not believe it's mostly natural.

Regarding your NEXT post, newsflash: we already have rationing. Insurance companies still deny care (rationing); needed yet available services often are priced well about the ability of the poor to pay for them (rationing); health services are not evenly distributed and public transportation is often absent (rationing); the technological imperative in medicine (newer=better) distributes what resources we have for care unevenly (rationing).

July 1, 2012 at 8:30 a.m.
Yano said...

joneses,

The American Way of Life has made us the second fattest country in the world, as well as by far the most wasteful country and the country that spends far more per person for health care while millions of us have no health care (until we're so sick a hospital can't turn us away).

We could live a little smarter, be a little healthier (if we listen to Michelle Obama). We could keep our PRIVATE health care while filtering preventive medicine costs for most people through PRIVATE insurance companies (which is what the Affordable Care Act does).

We could base our opinions about climate on science instead of right-wing bias, denialism, chauvinism, and wishful thinking.

Why are right-wingers so self destructive? Why are they so willfully ignorant? Why are they so anti-human?

July 1, 2012 at 8:33 a.m.
Yano said...

The real "death panel" is the right-wing position that millions of Americans should not be able to afford prescription medicine, checkups, or preventive medical care at all. Talk about evil rationing!

But that only affects poor people, to hell with them. If Jesus really loved them they wouldn't be poor.

July 1, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
conservative said...

"Climate experts say we should tell villagers in developing countries to reduce the amount of cooking smoke they generate to help fix global warming. You know, it's as if these people don't hate us enough already. I mean, they live in mud huts, they have thatch roofs, their clothes are made of straw. We pull up in a bunch of Humvees and SUVs going, 'Hey, you want to cut the smoke out of here?'" --Jay Leno

July 1, 2012 at 9:02 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

To Chief Climatologist ANNIEBELLE: Thanks for the info, little lady. (oops)

July 1, 2012 at 10:09 a.m.
dude_abides said...

joneses... you should give it up. Your posts are in monotone. Besides, taking advice from you would be like trusting tu_quoque's opinion regarding an imminent court decision. A total crap shoot, you know? Like shooting fish in a barrel, except you're standing in the barrel and you shoot yourself in the foot instead. You're sort of like a disoriented caveman, a 'meanderthal', as it were!

July 1, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.
yddem said...

Joneses refers to liberals as "pathetic, freeloading, parasites and leaches [sic]." The reasons Joneses and others of his ilk regularly resort to name-calling may include emotional instability, diminished mental capacity and irrational thought processes. What Joneses fails to recognize is that by resorting to name-calling, he has already lost the argument.

I consider myself a moderate, but I do not take offense when I am told I have liberal views. Most of the liberals I know are lively, thoughtful, productive and caring.

Unfortunately, there are liberals who also resort to name-calling. When they do, they not only lose the argument, they sink to the level of those about whom they comment.

July 1, 2012 at 10:48 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Wow, you really are misinformed. Did you not hear about the record low temperatures in Alaska this past winter?" - joneses

I don't know how much more misinformed anyone can be than to say something like that. It has been stated over and over and over again by climate scientists: the effects of global warming are not necessarily going to be an overall rise in daily temperatures uniformly across the earth. Rather the effects of global warming are creating, and will continue to create, more and more erratic weather. The key is erratic, not necessarily extremely hot weather everywhere at any given time. Yes, global warming does mean an overall rise in the earth's temperature as a whole but it will create varying weather patterns of extremities in differnt parts of the earth. The deniers like to point to record low cold weather somewhere as proof that global warming - or at least human induced global warming - does not exist. But the very fact that it is extreme and erratic, regardless of whether it is hot or not, bears out what the scientists are saying. The stubborn and obtuse deniers don't even listen to the facts of what is being said; they just react emotionally, with no thought whatsoever, in their knee-jerk fashion.

July 1, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

yddem: If you've followed this site long, you would clearly see that those on the left are the leaders in name-calling. Not even close. Is it not the Left's Manifesto that anyone against BHO is a racist? That tactic is a national disgrace.

July 1, 2012 at 10:57 a.m.
alprova said...

joneses is certainly wound up today. I wonder who he thinks gives his posts any consideration at this point. His opinionated garbage can be found all over the web, and for the most part, it is ignored by most rational people too.

How many ways does one person think they need to express the opinion that they do not like the current President of the United States, and how badly they do not want him to have a second term in office?

How many ways must one person express that they do not care for Liberals or their way of thinking?

We get it Francis. Give it a rest.

By the way Mr. Francis, don't you have a business to close down and to relocate down here from Ohio, putting all those lazy, demanding union workers out on the street?

That was your claim the other day, was it not?

July 1, 2012 at 10:58 a.m.

The left/Democrats are certainly the kings of hysteria and panic. Just ride it out.

Some summers are hotter than others, some winters are colder than others.

Everything is cyclical. The Global warming movement is about greed, controlling people and punishing those who don't accept it. Al Gore is a rotten spokesman for the movement. He's ignorant, obnoxious, greedy and a hypocrite.

Money and power are at the core of it. Extracting more money from citizens and restricting their lives is what it's about. What a joke.

The scientists who push that theory are all politically motivated. Even the " Godfather" of the theory, James Lovelock, who still believes the theory, is blasting the movement. He said it's like a religion and it's not settled science.

It seems that leftists will jump on anything to make people feel guilty and squeeze money out of them.

July 1, 2012 at 11:18 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Blonde: Well stated

July 1, 2012 at 11:23 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Blonde,

Your post would indicate that you have no clue what you are talking about. And I highly doubt trying to explain it to you would help. You are completely oblivious to the facts about global warming.

July 1, 2012 at 11:28 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Not only is EASY a constitutional scholar, now he's a climatologist too!! The lad is amazing.

July 1, 2012 at 11:35 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Love the avatar, J_D. It suits you perfectly. That is precisely the image I have of you when you and bbnd and joneses and other of your government-hating ilk make such asinine, neanderthal-ish remarks as above.

July 1, 2012 at 11:38 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Rickaroo: Thanks, I aim to please.

July 1, 2012 at 11:48 a.m.

Easy, your constantly trying to prove I'm ignorant. Check James Lovelock's comments online about it being a religion and that it's not settled science. We're just supposed to accept everything you say? Just like we're supposed to ignore the facts about Obamacare and how it will hurt the middle class.

75% of the cost of Obamacare will fall on those making $120k or less. That's a fact. All the wealthy, elitist lefty celebs and politicians will not have it alter their lives. They just heap it on the rest of us who make a modest living.

For every leftist leaning scientist you come up I'm sure it's easy to come up 10 more who disagree. That goes for meteorologists as well.

You folks, meaning leftists, are basing taxes on a theory that's full of holes.

Sad state of affairs.

July 1, 2012 at 11:55 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Blonde: How dare you question Easy. He's expert in Wicky.

July 1, 2012 at 11:57 a.m.

Jack, you're right. I better watch my tone.

Really, how ridiculous is it that we're supposed ignore Obama's slap in the face to the middle class? He can ride off into the sunset a very wealthy man, playing with celebs and playing all the golf he wants in exotic places, while we get stuck with more taxes, more fees and less freedom.

It nauseates me.

July 1, 2012 at 12:13 p.m.
lightkeeper said...

joneses and others of his like must have walked outside and had a mental breakdown when that 106 smacked them upside the head. I want all the conservatives in denial of global warming to pick up your little dog toto, put on your ruby slippers, click your hills together three times and say.."there's no such thing as global warming" while the rest of the planet burn to a crisp

July 1, 2012 at 12:19 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

It flat-out amazes me how you conservatives can know with such absolute certainty that human induced global warming is, without a doubt in your mind, NOT happening. I admit that I do not know for sure. I am not a scientist and God doesn't speak to me and tell me one way or the other. I like to get at the truth of something and the only way I know how to do that is to read, look, listen, and weigh the evidence. Based on everything that I have studied on the subject, there is literally a TON of scientific evidence that global warming is real and that we humans are causing or at least exacerbating it. Granted, there is also the evidence of those scientists who refute it but those scientists are in the minority and are mostly funded by the cororations that obviously do not want global warming to factor into their business plans going forward. In other words, there is good reason to beliejve that those scientists, most of whom are not even true climate scientists, just might be biased. Just a tad. Anyone who is the least bit objective and intent on getting at the truth, regardless of whether you are liberal or conservative, can easily see that there is at least the chance that there might be some bias going on there.

Now, let's assume, according to the right wing argument, that the thousands of climate scientists, more than 90% of whom agree that human induced climate change is happening, are all government-funded lackeys who are politically motivated and are all involved in a massive conspiracay to issue in a leftist, soicalist regime for the country. Yes, let's just assume that that is the case. So then...EVERY ONE of those scientists is a paid-off conspirator but NOT ONE of the scientists paid by big business is being anything but completely honest and true? Really? I mean...really??

If you prefer to believe the evidence that refutes human induced global warming, even though that evidence is suspect and in the minority, that is your prerogative and you might even deserve some respect for continuing to question it. But when you come out and state unequivocally as you do that it is all just a massive government conspiracy and global warming is NOT happening, period... well, pardon my naivete, but...you KNOW this how exactly? Please share with me your inside secret. Is God talking to you, or what? I'm just a dumb liberal trying to get at the truth of something. I know I must be simple minded to just weigh the evidence and pay attention to facts, but that is all that I know to do. Please....tell your God to talk to me or share with me your secret so that I can become as enlightened as you. I want to have this omniscience that you have. Please!

July 1, 2012 at 12:40 p.m.
cactus said...

Blame Bush!

July 1, 2012 at 12:46 p.m.

Hogwash, Rickaroo. You're strategy is to make anyone who disagrees with you out to be stupid, ignorant or crazy. Doesn't work. Global Warming has become a religion. Who is your GOD, Al Gore? Maybe it used to be James Lovelock, "the Godfather of the theory", until he said the Global Warming movement has gone wacko and become a religion.

What do you wackos want? You want everyone to stop driving cars, not use electricity, get rid of our clothes and forage around like apes or deer? You're extreme and unreasonable.

If you have the cause down pat, then you must also have the solution. Gee, and wouldn't it be a shock if the solution involves taxes, fees, penalties and, of course, the loss of freedom , and a few getting very rich, meaning those in government.

July 1, 2012 at 12:58 p.m.
alprova said...

BBND wrote: "Check James Lovelock's comments online about it being a religion and that it's not settled science."

To the best of my research, James Lovelock never used the word "religion" to describe proponents of global warming. He's still a believer himself that it is still ongoing.

What he did say is that he was an "alarmist," convinced that the effects of global warming would come to pass far sooner and more dramatic than they actually have.

"Human-caused carbon dioxide emissions are driving an increase in the global temperature, but the effect of the oceans is not well enough understood and could have a key role."

"Climate change is happening, but its effects will be felt farther in the future than I previously thought. We will have global warming, but it’s been deferred a bit."

"Humanity should still do our best to cut back on fossil fuel burning and try to adapt to the coming changes."

"We're just supposed to accept everything you say? Just like we're supposed to ignore the facts about Obamacare and how it will hurt the middle class."

Blah, blah, blah, blah...blah blah.

"75% of the cost of Obamacare will fall on those making $120k or less. That's a fact."

No it is not a fact. You are repeating typical GOP instigated hype and misinformation that has been a part of this issue since day one.

Four fifths of Americans, who have health insurance coverage provided to them by their employers will not be affected in the least by the implementation of ObamaCare.

For those who do not have access to health care insurance or who work for employers that do not provide health care benefits, will be given very generous tax credits. Premium assistance will offered to those who cannot afford to fully pay for health care insurance.

Everyone who pays part or all of health care premiums will qualify for tax credits that will offset all or the vast majority of the cost of paying health care insurance premiums. Employers already are given generous tax breaks for providing health care benefits to their employees.

The penalty or "tax" assessed for not obtaining health care insurance is completely avoidable and will never be a problem if people do one of two things: Seek employment with an employer offering health care benefits, or purchase a policy meeting the minimum requirements that will pay for major medical expenses.

"All the wealthy, elitist lefty celebs and politicians will not have it alter their lives. They just heap it on the rest of us who make a modest living."

Wow!! Now you're sounding as if you are actually one of the 99 percenters.

"You folks, meaning leftists, are basing taxes on a theory that's full of holes."

Hey...most of you right-wingers believe that the Earth is only a few thousand years old, despite science that proves otherwise. What's so surprising that you discount science that proves that man is destined to destroy the Earth in another hundred years?

July 1, 2012 at 1:06 p.m.
ricardo said...

It's ironic how the needle on that thermometer shows a meltdown on the right side of the dial. :-)

July 1, 2012 at 1:33 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

So AL, you're pretty fast with that "most of you".

July 1, 2012 at 1:34 p.m.
conservative said...

"This is kind of frightening. Al Gore told Congress last week the global warming scenario is worse than previously predicted. Worse than predicted? Wasn't the first prediction we're all going to fry to death? Huh? What's worse than that? Is it going to be humid, too? Is that it?" Jay Leno

July 1, 2012 at 1:35 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

bbnd, you are making exaggerated and irrational remarks that have nothing at all to do with what I just said. Why am I not surprised?

You keep referencing James Lovelock. Reference this: Richard Muller, one of the most prominent physicists and skeptics of global warming spent two years trying to find out if mainstream climate scientists were wrong. In the end, he determined they were right: Temperatures really are rising, and rising rapidly. And he came to this conclusion while looking for evidence to the contrary.

There is much more evidence indicating that global warming is real. If you want to cling to the dubious evidence of those who deny it, fine. But for you to come out and say, without any doubt whatsoever, that global warming is NOT happening, then you are a complete fool. And that is not name calling. That's just a fact.

July 1, 2012 at 1:35 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

You mopes are not gonna solve the global warming issue on this site. Hell, science can't even agree. Give it a rest. Way too hot for this.

July 1, 2012 at 2:27 p.m.

I never said it wasn't real. I said your leftist theory of it being caused by man is full of it. The earth cools, the earth heats up. It's all cyclical. You leftists have an overblown view of your power. I'm done talking about it. Jack is right, it's too hot for this.

July 1, 2012 at 2:33 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Blonde: The sad reality is that the left wants to blame SOMEONE. Preferably, America.

July 1, 2012 at 2:34 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "So AL, you're pretty fast with that "most of you"."

Do take note of the fact that I did not use the phrase, "all of you" in reference to right-wingers. Do you have any evidence to the contrary that most right-wingers identify themselves as Christians, and that they believe that the Bible is literal?

July 1, 2012 at 2:38 p.m.
conservative said...

Don't believe Godless and crazy Liberals have their own enviornmental religion and agenda of Socialism to go with it? Excerpts from the loons at Democratic Underground. com :

"Maurice Strong isn't often in the news, but he's frequently behind it"

"The broad strokes: The Canadian Strong is an oxymoronic billionaire socialist who serves as Special Advisor to the Secretary-General of the United Nations and as Senior Advisor to the President of the World Bank. He is also, among many other things, Chairman of Strovest Holdings, Chairman and Director of Technology Development Corp, Director of the Foundation Board of the World Economic Forum and Chairman of the Earth Council"

"What else is Maurice Strong? An environmentalist and patron of New Age beliefs and religious syncretism. He and his wife have been developing tens of thousands of acres in Colorado as a model "international spiritual community," called the Baca, of which the Manitou Institute forms a part."

"Now the good stuff : "Strong has said that "we may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrial civilization to collapse." Again, largely, I agree. One teeny distinction between us: Strong is one of those in a position to effect its collapse"

It gets worse : "Here's Strong, thinking dangerous thoughts aloud at the conclusion of an interview with WEST magazine in May, 1990 entitled "The Wizard of the Baca Grande":

"Each year the World Economic Forum convenes in Davos, Switzerland. Over a thousand CEOs, prime ministers, finance ministers, and leading academics gather in February to attend meetings and set the economic agendas for the year ahead. What if a small group of these word leaders were to conclude that the principle risk to the earth comes from the actions of the rich countries? And if the world is to survive, those rich countries would have to sign an agreement reducing their impact on the environment. Will they do it? Will the rich countries agree to reduce their impact on the environment? Will they agree to save the earth?"

"The group's conclusion is "no." The rich countries won't do it. They won't change. So, in order to save the planet, the group decides: isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsibility to bring that about?"

These people are nuts!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3522537

July 1, 2012 at 2:51 p.m.
alprova said...

BBND wrote "I never said it wasn't real. I said your leftist theory of it being caused by man is full of it."

You are in complete denial, for whatever reason. Common sense should tell you that the burning of fossil fuels into the atmosphere is quite damaging to the environment.

If you disagree, then I invite you to go out to your car, start the engine, then go wrap your lips around the tailpipe and breathe in and out for one minute, if you live that long.

"The earth cools, the earth heats up. It's all cyclical."

It's not all about temperatures. Violent and deadly weather storms of all description are also a side effect of climate change, due to human activities that the Earth was never designed to compensate for.

"You leftists have an overblown view of your power. I'm done talking about it. Jack is right, it's too hot for this."

Hey...no problem. You deniers simply step aside and those of us who do care and who know the truth about climate change, will work to take care of the problem, despite your objections.

You're horribly outnumbered, so who cares what you believe?

July 1, 2012 at 2:54 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

numbered or outnumbered. doesn't make a whit of difference.

July 1, 2012 at 2:58 p.m.
mymy said...

JonRoss said...

“You rightwingers are up the creek now. The most honorable Chief Justice John Roberts has decreed that Barack Hussien Obama does INDEED have the right to wage war, on the American people."

“Roberts explained why he had sided with the four liberal justices: not because he thought the health care law was "good policy" but because there wasn't a constitutional reason to invalidate the individual mandate at the core of the law. "We possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments," he wrote in his majority opinion, which he read in part from the bench. "Those decisions are entrusted to our nation's elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."

Although his decision to go left is more complicated than appears, to me he was saying: get your butts to the voting booth. You can bet your sweet ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that the large percentage that does not like this law with be there!

I think he woke up a lot of people.

July 1, 2012 at 3:02 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"You mopes are not gonna solve the global warming issue on this site. Hell, science can't even agree." J_D

That's the point. The right wing contingent won't even admit that there is a disagreement to be discussed or an issue to be solved. Almost everyone on the right simply states emphatically that we human beings have NOTHING to do with global warming. They blithely accept the findings of the denier scientists but across the board they dismiss the findings of the climate scientists - the ones who deserve the most credence - as being nothing but propaganda. Doesn't make a bit of sense. I admit that I don't know for sure, but the preponderance of evidence points to the reality of global warming taking place and we humans and our emissions making a bad problem even worse.

I'm as opinionated about my liberal views as any conservative is about theirs, but global warming is something that should have nothing to do with being a liberal or conservative. If it's really happening, we should want to get it right and deal with it accordingly. We should all care enough about our kids and grand kids, at least, to want to do everything we can to ensure that they still have a decent planet to live on after we're gone. It's funny how the right wing is so concerned about their kids being saddled with "debt" in the future but they give no thought whatsoever to the fact that they might not even have a habitable planet 50 years from now, making matters of the economy totally irrelevant.

July 1, 2012 at 3:11 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Blonde: The sad reality is that the left wants to blame SOMEONE. Preferably, America."

Another one of J_D's pearls of wisdom. And the right doesn't lay blame on anyone, does it? Oh wait...except for the GOVERNMENT, THE GOVERNMENT, always THE GOVERNMENT. That damn government. And then of course there's Obama - that goes without saying.

July 1, 2012 at 3:22 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

And Ricky, the left always wants to blame america first. As for the pearls, I got a ton of them.

July 1, 2012 at 3:26 p.m.
Salsa said...

I wish Al Gore had never invented Global Warming. He should have stopped after inventing the internet.

July 1, 2012 at 3:28 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative, it's so nice of you to size up every Liberal as being Godless. You are totally clueless. You're one of many people whom God will set straight when your judgment day comes.

In your twisted and feeble mind, you attempt to make a tie between people who believe in treating the Earth with a little more respect, to those who practice New Age.

Your logic is simply amazing.

Pentecostal Church of God members, a church that was born in Cleveland, Tennessee by the way, who believe in handling deadly snakes, consider themselves to be devout Christians. Are we to evaluate all Christians by their espoused beliefs? Do you share in their core belief that only the truly faithful will not be bitten by any snake that they handle, or that you will not die if you are bitten?

If you are attempting to define people who believe in climate change as having adopted a yet unnamed "religion," and that it is based on science yet unproven, at least in your mind, then how do you justify your belief in Jesus Christ?

There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that proves that the man ever lived on this Earth, no evidence that proves that he was put to death, and certainly no evidence that proves that he arose three days later and ascended to heaven.

You base your entire belief in Christ, based on words in an ancient book full of ancient stories, and of course, your beliefs are also based on repeated indoctrination drummed into your head from other people who believed before you did.

You're very hypocritical to condemn believers in climate change science as "religious" nutcases. My bet is that you'll never in a million years understand that simple premise.

For some people, it's never simply enough for them to agree to disagree. You have to knock perceived foes down and then step on their throats, by posting references to garbage that has no bearing whatsoever on the issue at hand.

July 1, 2012 at 3:40 p.m.
conservative said...

Socialist need revenue from global warming hoax. Who knew?

Global Carbon Tax Urged at UN Climate Conference December 13, 2007

"A panel of UN participants on Thursday urged the adoption of a TAX that would represent “a global burden sharing system, fair, with solidarity, and legally binding to all nations.” "

and "The U.S. and other wealthy nations need to “contribute significantly more to this global fund,” Schwank explained. He also added, “It is very essential to TAX COAL.” "

http://www.politicallyincorrectfacts.com/Global_Warming/Outrageous_Items.htm

July 1, 2012 at 3:52 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

The thermometer has melted because of god's infinite love in punishing Hamilton County for electing such religious hypocrites to the Hamilton County Commission. May god's ill-will be done.

July 1, 2012 at 4:08 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative, the United States does not pay any carbon taxes to the United Nations. Not even the "Socialist" President, Barack Obama, has proposed or endorsed a carbon tax on an international or national level.

Is anyone paying carbon taxes in the United States? Yes.

Boulder, Colorado residents pay a carbon tax of about $16 a year for residents, or $46 a year on businesses, which is paid to the state's Office of Environmental Affairs.

The California Air Resource Board now requires 300 polluters across the state to purchase carbon credits, as part of its cap and trade legislation.

Montgomery County, Maryland passed legislation to assess carbon taxes on the power plant located there.

July 1, 2012 at 4:28 p.m.
lightkeeper said...

I agree daytonsdarwin...Jeremiah 5:21 says to people like conservative and the evangelical hypocrites.. Hear this you foolish and senseless people you have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear. their foolish and blindsided view of serious matters such as this that affect all of us, will be all of our doom

July 1, 2012 at 4:28 p.m.
conservative said...

“Barbra Streisand told Diane Sawyer that we’re in a global warming crisis, and we can expect more and more intense storms, droughts and dust bowls. But before they act, weather experts say they’re still waiting to hear from Celine Dion.” Jay Leno

July 1, 2012 at 5 p.m.
potcat said...

I just ran into a swarm of yellowjackets and i'm not talking about al and easy. They were so many of them swarming around a tomato plant, and then i saw the hole in the ground they were going in and out and before i could holler for the hubby to bring the gas i got it right between my toe, i had flip flops on. Damn that mother hurt and still does. They are hunting for water. So beware, i didn't even see one last year.

July 1, 2012 at 5:55 p.m.
alprova said...

Since ObamaCare is still on the minds of so many, I think it appropriate to post some rather sad statistics, given that we allegedly live in the richest country in the World.

The GOP is making no bones about their determination to repeal the Health Care Affordable Act. Never mind the fact that they have no intention whatsoever in replacing it with a thing that would assist 50 million people who currently have no health care insurance coverage.

So what happens to many of the people who are uninsured and who do not have the resources to pay for medical care when they get sick? They die. And apparently, that is a-okay with the Republican leadership.

Here are the top ten states and the deaths associated in those states, strictly due to the lack of health care insurance;

10.) Nevada - 22.6% of the State's population is uninsured. 11.83 resident per 100,000 die due each year to a lack of health care insurance.

09.) Georgia - 19.7% are uninsured. 11.95 per 100,000 die each year due to a lack of health insurance.

08.) Oklahoma - 18.9% are uninsured. 12.02 per 100,000 die each year due to a lack of health insurance.

07.) West Virginia - 21.3% are uninsured. 12.06 per 100,000 die each year due to a lack of health insurance.

06.) Florida - 21.3% are uninsured. 12.06 per 100,000 die each year due to a lack of health insurance.

05.) New Mexico - 19.6% are uninsured. 12.15 per 100,000 die each year due to a lack of health insurance.

04.) South Carolina - 17.5% are uninsured. 13.48 per 100,000 die each year due to a lack of health insurance.

03.) Arkansas - 17.5% are uninsured. 14.94 per 100,000 die each year due to a lack of health care insurance.

02.) Louisiana - 17.8% are uninsured. 14.94 per 100,000 die each year due to a lack of health insurance.

01.) Mississippi - 18.2% are uninsured. 15.82 per 100,000 die each year due to a lack of health insurance.

With statistics like this being a reality for way too many, for citizens of a nation that likes to proclaim itself the greatest on Earth, I find this nothing short of a set of facts that we all should be ashamed about.

ObamaCare will not automatically transform and solve the insurance problems for every single person in this country without insurance today, but it will go a heckova lot farther than anything any politician with an (R) following their name has ever proposed.

Which is cheaper? Health insurance premiums or health care bills being currently paid on behalf of the indigent?

If you haven't read the bill, I urge you to take the time to hit the highlights, if nothing else. Don't fall for GOP inspired rhetoric, misinformation, and outright lies.

ObamaCare is not perfect, but it is a good start in which to build upon.

July 1, 2012 at 5:56 p.m.
conservative said...

More excerpts revealing agenda of the enviornmental cults :

"The environmental group Friends of the Earth, in attendance in Bali, also advocated the transfer of money from rich to poor nations on Wednesday." Now brace yourselves.

" “A climate change response must have at its heart a redistribution of wealth and resources,” said Emma Brindal, a climate justice campaigner coordinator for Friends of the Earth."

Now Liberals, admit it, they don't acquaint you with this knowledge where you go for your indoctrination.

http://www.politicallyincorrectfacts.com/Global_Warming/Outrageous_Items.htm

July 1, 2012 at 6:01 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Alprova: So now those opposing Obamatax are saying it's ok for people without coverage to die. Is that what you're saying? Really?

July 1, 2012 at 6:05 p.m.
MTJohn said...

alprova said..."So what happens to many of the people who are uninsured and who do not have the resources to pay for medical care when they get sick? They die. And apparently, that is a-okay with the Republican leadership."

I don't think so, Al. My guess is that they will continue to receive care and that you and I will continue to pay for it, just as we do now, with inflated costs and inflated insurance premiums. It's call cost-shifting, i.e. those who can afford to pay, pay the costs for those who can't afford to pay. Given the choice, I would prefer to support health care for the indigent with my taxes than to have my pocket picked with each medical bill and insurance premium.

I suspect that the Republican leadership is oblivious whether patients get care or don't and whether they live or die. What they care about is that those in the health industry (we have an industry, not a system of care), especially those in the industry who support the K Street project, make exorbitant profits.

July 1, 2012 at 6:17 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack_Dennis said..."Alprova: So now those opposing Obamatax are saying it's ok for people without coverage to die. Is that what you're saying? Really?"

Of course he isn't saying that, Jack. And, there is no way to reach that conclusion from an honest read of what Al posted.

July 1, 2012 at 6:18 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - if climate science were a banana cream pie, you would deny it even when it hit you square in the face.

July 1, 2012 at 6:22 p.m.
patriot1 said...

I thought this toon might be about all the labor unrest at the Times Free Press.....

July 1, 2012 at 6:39 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTJohn: Not to quibble, but re-read HIS quote. "So what happens to many of the people who are uninsured and who do not have the resources to pay for medical care when they get sick? They die. And apparently, that is a-okay with the Republican leadership."

July 1, 2012 at 7:07 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Ok, Jack. Now, please explain how you got from what Al said to the conclusion that those who agree with ACA that it is ok to allow sick people to die without receiving the appropriate care.

July 1, 2012 at 7:12 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Hey John, ask Al. He made the statement.

July 1, 2012 at 7:17 p.m.
tderng said...

MTJohn said... Ok, Jack. Now, please explain how you got from what Al said to the conclusion that those who agree with ACA that it is ok to allow sick people to die without receiving the appropriate care.

MTJohn...I believe that al said that people who DISAGREE with aca are ok with it.

July 1, 2012 at 7:28 p.m.
alprova said...

MTJohn wrote: "I don't think so, Al. My guess is that they will continue to receive care and that you and I will continue to pay for it, just as we do now, with inflated costs and inflated insurance premiums."

The reason uninsured people are dying under our current system of health care are due to the fact that if they appear for treatment in an emergency room, they are usually only stabilized and then discharged with instructions to seek followup care from their primary care physician.

Case in point: I had five strokes last year, and now I'm currently being treated for congestive heart failure. I am uninsured. I pay what I can, as I can, but I am sitting on top of more than $100,000 in hospital bills, stemming from my medical maladies. I totally neglected my health for three years, because I didn't have the money to pay maintain my health and now I am paying the price for it.

Before I go on, let me make it clear that I am doing fine and my heart will heal itself, in time. I'm already doing better than I was a month ago.

Early in May, I was hospitalized in intensive care, after swelling up like a watermelon. After four days, I was discharged with instructions to follow up with a Cardiologist. I was given a three day prescription for meds, none of which included diuretics. The earliest I could get in to see the Cardiologist was a month from the date I was discharged.

I bounced back in the ER seven days later. I was stabilized by a physician on his last shift ever at the hospital, and discharged with a two day supply of diuretics and instructions to seek immediate followup with the Cardiologist. Again, he could not see me for more than a month.

I went to my primary care facility, which mainly consists of nurse practitioners, who do a pretty good job most of the time, but in the absence of a practicing Cardiologist at the facility, they misjudged my condition and prescribed very weak doses of diuretics. I was swollen from head to toe again in two days time.

(To be cont.)

July 1, 2012 at 7:51 p.m.
alprova said...

(Cont.)

As luck would have it, I had a scheduled appointment with a Nephrologist three days after my primary care appointment. He took one look at me and put me in the hospital, where I spent another four days in intensive care.

This doctor has become my saving grace. He not only got all the fluid off my body and from around my heart, he discharged me with prescriptions to keep me totally under control. My blood pressure is perfect, for the first time in my life. With the exception of my inability to do much of anything physically demanding, I'm doing wonderful. A month ago, I couldn't walk a hundred yards to the mailbox and back without having to stop and rest halfway there and back. I can now go back and forth uninterrupted.

Regarding the Cardiologist that I was supposed to see? I made it to my appointment a month after my first hospitalization. I was sitting in his waiting room, when he called in to let his staff know that he would not be seeing patients that day.

I was told that the office would contact me with a new appointment. I am still waiting for that call. It's been 52 days since he treated me in the hospital, and had I had to depend on him for a thing, I would have died six weeks ago.

I now take 13 pills, twice a day, just to keep me stable at all times, but those 13 pills as a collective effort are working, and I am doing okay.

If not for the Nephrologist, who has never billed me a dime, knowing my situation, I firmly believe that I would have been six feet under right now.

The point to my digression is this: How many people have been in similar situations, who were not as fortunate as I have been, who were kicked out of ER's with deficient care or even no hope of the kind of followup care that they needed?

July 1, 2012 at 7:52 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Glad you're better, man.

July 1, 2012 at 7:58 p.m.
rick1 said...

Al, once again you did not cite your source for your post at 6:01pm. But when you look at the report itis no wonder why you did notwant to cite it as the the numbers are bougus. And you say you always double check your work. The information you used from Familes USA titled “Dying for Coverage: The Deadly Consequences of Being Uninsured”—bases its findings on a 2002 report from the Institute of Medicine, a cousin of the National Academy of Sciences. The IoM report, entitled “Care Without Coverage: Too Little, Too Late,” reviewed the academic literature on insurance and health outcomes, and concluded that “Adults under age 65 who were uninsured at the beginning of a study face a 25 percent higher risk of dying than those with private coverage.” That, in turn, translated to 18,000 people in the year 2000. Families USA used simple arithmetic to extrapolate that 18,000 people in 2000 would equate to 26,100 in 2010.

However, as Chris Jacobs notes, a 2009 paper by Richard Kronick, published in Health Services Research, thoroughly debunked the IoM findings. Wrote Kronick, “The IoM concluded that lack of universal coverage in the United States led to an excess of 18,000 deaths per year. That conclusion is almost certainly incorrect.”

For the statistically minded, Kronick’s paper is worth reading in full. Kronick has no animus against Obamacare; indeed, he serves in the Obama administration, and was a senior health care policy advisor to President Clinton, where he helped to design Hillarycare.

Al, unlike you, I will provide the link where I obtained this information.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/06/22/families-usas-bogus-claim-that-overturning-obamacare-will-kill-people/

July 1, 2012 at 8 p.m.
lightkeeper said...

Most conservative republicans could care less about poor and middle class americans health and hate you for being sick, they don't care about the environment, they know deep down that man is partly to blame for global warming, the only thing they don't hate is money, they wouldn't care if the world burned to a crisp as long as they burned up with a couple of million in the bank and a few hundreds in their greedy pockets.

July 1, 2012 at 8:08 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Thanks, tderng. That changes my request for explanation. That's what Jack said Al said. But, it still isn't what Al said. Al talked about the Republicans' intent on repealing ACA. He also talked about the Republicans' failure to offer an alternative that would ensure medical care for those who are not now financially able to obtain it. Thus, Jack is not challenging what Al said. Jack is challenging his own mis-interpretation (intentional??)of what Al said.

July 1, 2012 at 8:12 p.m.
fairmon said...

Not global warming related but,

Alprova said....in response to another off topic post

For those who do not have access to health care insurance or who work for employers that do not provide health care benefits, will be given very generous tax credits. Premium assistance will offered to those who cannot afford to fully pay for health care insurance.

It is not logical to think up to 50 million people, many that cannot afford insurance, can be insured without it costing someone more. Why not acknowledge that fact and inform those that will be paying more of that truth. Tell them what the cost is likely to be and to suck it up and plan on paying it. To conclude that tax credits and premium assistance cost money that someone must pay is a very logical conclusion.

The sooner both parties recognize that to keep spending at the current rates including this expanded health care cost will require increasing taxes to a point taxes equal spending the better off the country will be. Trying to increase revenue incrementally by calling government revenue something other than a tax is a fraud. For example earned income credits where people receive a tax refund greater than taxes paid is welfare and should be a program separate from taxes and identified as such. Tax deductions, reductions, credits etc. etc. are welfare with those with higher incomes getting more of these while the lower the income the less realized from those welfare sources called deductions, credits, incentives etc. The current convoluted tax system is misleading and manipulative. Set the rates and collect the tax then dole it out in a transparent way so people know who is paying who, how much and for what. Pass a law that requires a business to identify how much of their product or service cost results from taxes and other legislatively imposed cost with an understanding that any reduction in those cost will require an equal reduction in the cost of their product or service.

July 1, 2012 at 8:16 p.m.
alprova said...

MTJohn wrote: "It's call cost-shifting, i.e. those who can afford to pay, pay the costs for those who can't afford to pay. Given the choice, I would prefer to support health care for the indigent with my taxes than to have my pocket picked with each medical bill and insurance premium."

But that's the point. Right now, taxpayers are paying a great portion of the medical bills for those who cannot afford to pay them. The leftover unpaid amounts of those bills are absorbed by higher payments by insurers.

If the poor and those who are currently uninsured had insurance policies in place, even if the premiums for the currently uninsured were 100% paid by the taxpayers, it would be far cheaper than what is paid out now on behalf of these same people.

"I suspect that the Republican leadership is oblivious whether patients get care or don't and whether they live or die. What they care about is that those in the health industry (we have an industry, not a system of care), especially those in the industry who support the K Street project, make exorbitant profits."

Agreed. The GOP most definitely is concerned with profits for providers of medical care, far more than they are seeking to provide affordable medical care for Americans who need it.

I have no problem at all with providers making a profit. They need to do so or we all suffer, for what would be the incentive for anyone seeking a career in medicine, if there were no money in it for them?

Still, the fact of the matter is that there are countries out there who are kicking our hind ends in terms of quality medical care, delivered more efficiently, for far less money, and with better results.

The average administrative cost for U.S. based insurers, is around 30% of every dollar they pay out on behalf of patients. Governments with universal health care coverage on every citizen in their countries, average around 6%.

Taiwan reformed their health care system 16 years ago to that of a single payer system, eliminating all insurers. In America, people visit a doctor an average of four times a year. In Taiwan, they visit a doctor an average of 14 times a year. Hospital stays average 5 days in America. They average 10 days in Taiwan.

In sixteen years, Taiwan has raised the premiums paid to the Gov't for health care coverage TWICE. And the health care system is totally self-supported.

Until Washington D.C. based Republicans start serving all people of this nation, rather than only those who depend on them to work to fill their pockets with obscene profits, day in and day out, while pulling the wool over the eyes of people that are nothing to them, but solicit their votes deceptively, many people in this country are going to continue to suffer.

There is a fine line between earning a fair and reasonable profit and stuffing pockets full of funds pried from people's pockets deceptively, using methods of corruption, and taking full advantage of people's naivete.

July 1, 2012 at 8:41 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=188&f=1659&t=9095537

I invite alprova to read this article. It clearly quotes Lovelock as saying that opponents are a "green religion".

July 1, 2012 at 8:44 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

"Fair and reasonable" profits?......Of course....for the left to decide what is "fair" and "reasonable"...

July 1, 2012 at 8:49 p.m.
TOES02800 said...
July 1, 2012 at 9:06 p.m.
fairmon said...

Non profit insurers pay exorbitant salaries to bloated staffs and build elaborate office complexes while spending on non business activities. The same is true with for profit insurers.

July 1, 2012 at 9:29 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

lightkeeper said....."Most conservative republicans could care less about poor and middle class americans health and hate you for being sick, they don't care about the environment, they know deep down that man is partly to blame for global warming, the only thing they don't hate is money, they wouldn't care if the world burned to a crisp as long as they burned up with a couple of million in the bank and a few hundreds in their greedy pockets."

...The absolute worst post since I began reading this site. I would call on all thoughtful Lefties to repudiate lightkeeper's statement.

July 1, 2012 at 9:37 p.m.
moonpie said...

Jack,

I think you are right. I have never met a conservative who could accurately sum up my beliefs.

I think most people do a poor job of understanding the nuances of those whom they oppose.

Conservatives have compassion, they crave understanding.... they want the best for America and Americans, just as liberals do.... they just have a very different understanding of what will lead to prosperity of our nation and our people.

We tend to villify those with whom we disagree. The only thing I abhor is intentional ignorance. I see this all around, in people of every political pursuasion, but not in all people.

So, yes, I think lightkeeper should stick to saying what he/she believes and not inadequately defining others. If lightkeeper were correct, then Mississippi should be democrats: they are poor, malnoursished, and very unhealthy as a group. They are the opposite of 1% in just about everything.... yet they are very conservative as a state.

That proves it's not just about greed.

Ignorance, we can discuss later.

July 1, 2012 at 9:46 p.m.
lightkeeper said...

@ Jack Dennis...Iam sure the Lefties as you call them would repudiate my statement if it weren't true. and I feel the same way about your response, its the way most conservatives represent themselves.

July 1, 2012 at 9:51 p.m.
raygunz said...

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) on Sunday pledged to repeal President Barack Obama's health care reforms and said that the 30 million Americans that the law is likely to cover were "not the issue" for Republicans. "I just want to ask what specific steps are you going to do to provide universal coverage to the 30 million people who are uninsured?"(Chris) Wallace pressed.

"That is not the issue," McConnell insisted.

July 1, 2012 at 10:13 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

I saw that raygunz. McConnell tap-danced almost as good as the BHO minion on just before him.

July 1, 2012 at 10:41 p.m.
fairmon said...

Alpro said....

If the poor and those who are currently uninsured had insurance policies in place, even if the premiums for the currently uninsured were 100% paid by the taxpayers, it would be far cheaper than what is paid out now on behalf of these same people.

In your opinion of course. Why are taxes being added and coverage reduced? There may be some economist somewhere conclude this but I haven't seen one. Most politicians with an inkling of intelligence don't reach this conclusion either.

It is now a validated law and what was sold as a penalty is now a tax. So what, congress should be encouraged to raise taxes enough to pay all the federal government bills plus a token debt reduction and get on with it before we become the next Greece.

I would like to see the tax code simplified and modified to whatever is deemed "fair" and the rates adjusted up and down the line accordingly. Who can object to paying their "fair share" to meet expenditures under those circumstances?

July 1, 2012 at 11:15 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Moonpie,

"If lightkeeper were correct, then Mississippi should be democrats: they are poor, malnoursished, and very unhealthy as a group. They are the opposite of 1% in just about everything.... yet they are very conservative as a state."

Mississippi is still poor because they vote Republican. They vote against their on interests. They have drunk the Conservative Kool-Aid and the whole state is suffering for it.

This is a great interview that shows how Mississippians think (mostly contrary to their own economic and personal interests):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7r2i6NrqNs&feature=related

July 1, 2012 at 11:34 p.m.
lightkeeper said...

Thanks easy123 for posting the video, that type of mentality is part of the reason I made my comment, you can't hide obvious truth.

July 1, 2012 at 11:49 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

So light keeper and easy think those guys are typical Mississippians? You guys probably even like Bill Maher, eh?

July 2, 2012 at 12:03 a.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "I invite alprova to read this article. It clearly quotes Lovelock as saying that opponents are a "green religion"."

MSNBC was the source of the interview in question. Your link offers that information, does it not?

Now, I invite you to read the original interview in its entirety, and nowhere in that interview does that "religion" quote appear.

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/23/11144098-gaia-scientist-james-lovelock-i-was-alarmist-about-climate-change?lite

But, I did find that quote in an interview that he gave to the UK Guardian in June.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jun/15/james-lovelock-interview-gaia-theory

The entire quote:

"It's just the way the humans are that if there's a cause of some sort, a religion starts forming around it. It just so happens that the green religion is now taking over from the Christian religion. I don't think people have noticed that, but it's got all the sort of terms that religions use. The greens use guilt. You can't win people round by saying they are guilty for putting CO2 in the air."

He does not consider "greens," as he coins extreme environmentalists to be his "opponents." He simply think that some of the "greens" go too far in their endeavors.

So do I.

July 2, 2012 at 12:39 a.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "Are these profits "fair and reasonable"?"

Do you even understand what a profit is?

July 2, 2012 at 12:43 a.m.
raygunz said...

If those guys are NOT typical Mississippians, then how do you explain their state being,more or less,"at the bottom of the economic barrel?"

July 2, 2012 at 12:44 a.m.
alprova said...

YOES02800 wrote: "A sign of what's to come with socialized health care."

ObamaCare does not even qualify for the distinction as socialized healthcare.

So until real socialized heath care is proposed, why even argue the point?

July 2, 2012 at 12:51 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

raygunz: Do you know who produced the video? Did it appear on Bill Maher's show?

July 2, 2012 at 1:03 a.m.

Still hot. But at least that spat of rain cooled things down a bit.

July 2, 2012 at 1:29 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "Why are taxes being added and coverage reduced?"

When were any taxes added? That infamous list floating all over the web have been the same list of revenue streams that were written into the plan in 2009.

Only one of those "taxes" hits the mark as a possible tax increase on the middle class. The medical deduction threshold being raised to 10% from 7.5% affects all taxpayers, if they pay enough out of pocket medical expenses during a calendar year, and if they file long form tax returns.

Most on that list are completely avoidable taxes. Several are not even tax increases at all.

Coverage or specific policies have yet to be written. How can anyone state that coverage has been reduced? Only one provision, payments for long term care, was suspended last October for being too expensive and unworkable.

"There may be some economist somewhere conclude this but I haven't seen one. Most politicians with an inkling of intelligence don't reach this conclusion either."

I admit it. I am certainly biased in my opinions. I am virtually uninsurable until January 1, 2014, that is if ObamaCare survives.

If not, I guess I'll be writing thank-you notes to the other taxpayers of this nation for the help in paying my medical bills.

I own a business and I write checks every quarter to the IRS, but I don't have a hundred grand laying around to pay for hospital bills at the moment. I'm definitely on the long-term payment plan.

Insurance premiums paid on my behalf would represent an immense cost savings, don't you think? I'm one of many Americans facing my particular circumstance.

So far, I'm on the hook for every dime that I've been billed. How long that holds remains to be seen. Hutcheson Memorial has a hit man looking for me. :')

July 2, 2012 at 1:33 a.m.
fairmon said...

Alpro ask....

How can anyone state that coverage has been reduced?

I for one can state it as a fact and others have seen adjustments to coverage and increased premiums due to cost increases and anticipated increases due to the AHCA.

I am sure no member of congress or the administration has the wherewithal to simplify the convoluted tax codes. They will not give up the manipulation and favor showing which in itself is very expensive.

Read my post and you will see I have only advocated that taxes be imposed that pay the cost of the expanded coverage. Your situation is unfortunate but from your past post touting your financial success one would assume you could have afforded to have insurance but chose not to.

July 2, 2012 at 6:13 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Everything the white house staff is overpaid to me is considered a "profit"..

July 2, 2012 at 6:54 a.m.
conservative said...

I'm keeping the heat on or those who would use the hoax of man made/caused global warming to raise tax revenue for their Socialist schemes.

"In 2000, then French President Jacques Chirac said the UN’s Kyoto Protocol represented "the first component of an authentic global governance." Former EU Environment Minister Margot Wallstrom said, "Kyoto is about the economy, about leveling the playing field for big businesses worldwide." "

You see it is all about Socialism, power and control.

http://www.politicallyincorrectfacts.com/Global_Warming/Outrageous_Items.htm

July 2, 2012 at 7:55 a.m.
timbo said...

Global warming....Ha!!! No such thing. Data is either misinterpreted or made up. This heat has set records lately with t the record for this date being set in 1953 at 99 degrees. We might break it today.

I guess it was the same "global warming" that set the record 60 years ago, right?

What a bunch of liberal imbeciles. You can't be too smart if you voted for Obama.

July 2, 2012 at 10:47 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp339 wrote: "Your situation is unfortunate but from your past post touting your financial success one would assume you could have afforded to have insurance but chose not to."

And you would be wrong. No insurance company will touch me due to my pre-existing health issues.

Financially, I am doing okay, but I am far from made of money.

July 2, 2012 at 11:04 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Timbo,

The ignorance is strong with you.

Your post shows your lack of knowledge on the subject of global warming.

I would call you a conservative idiot but that would be redundant.

July 2, 2012 at 11:11 a.m.
conservative said...

Need more proof that the man is causing global warming hoax is not about Socialism :

The environmental group Friends of the Earth advocated the transfer of money from rich to poor nations during the 2007 UN climate conference.

"A climate change response must have at its heart a redistribution of wealth and resources,” said Emma Brindal, a climate justice campaigner coordinator for Friends of the Earth.

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/1893/Gore-US-Climate-Bill-Will-Help-Bring-About-Global-Governance

July 2, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Timbo is a glaring example of today's many right wingers who have taken their ideology to extremes. When there is so much conflicting data on human induced global warming, most of which confirms the reality of it, and to not only not give it some serious thought, at the very least, but to state emphatically that it is NOT happening, end of discussion, period...well, that is arrogant, impudent, and just plain stupid. It is one thing to be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, or whatever, and to believe in your particular ideology. But to take it to the next level and blindly worship it, wherein you lose the ability to assimilate factual evidence and come to an objective conclusion, then you have turned your ideology into an idiot-ology. Unfortunately we have to contend with way too many right wingers today who are stubbornly and maniacally clinging to their idiot-ology.

July 2, 2012 at 12:30 p.m.
dude_abides said...

timbo erectus enters, his eyes suspicious of his unibrow.

July 2, 2012 at 1:04 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy123: Voted number one name caller on this site.

July 2, 2012 at 2:10 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

How clever Mr. Bennett? Not quite sure why I wasted my time to check on your cartoon today.

July 2, 2012 at 2:43 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Good one, dude_abides. That gave me a chuckle. J_D, what you claim to be name calling by Easy, I claim to be him simply stating a fact.

July 2, 2012 at 2:51 p.m.
conservative said...

The false prophet Obamination claimed that the rise of the oceans would begin to slow after he was elected and he has also teamed up with Al Gore to perform more miracles in addition to Socialism:

"Former Vice President Al Gore declared that the Congressional climate bill will help bring about “global governance.”

“I bring you good news from the U.S., “Gore said on July 7, 2009 in Oxford at the Smith School World Forum on Enterprise and the Environment, sponsored by UK Times."

"“Just two weeks ago, the House of Representatives passed the Waxman-Markey climate bill,” Gore said, noting it was “very much a step in the right direction.” President Obama has pushed for the passage of the bill in the Senate and attended a G8 summit this week where he agreed to attempt to keep the Earth's temperatures from rising more than 2 degrees C.""

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/1893/Gore-US-Climate-Bill-Will-Help-Bring-About-Global-Governance

July 2, 2012 at 3:12 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "Not quite sure why I wasted my time to check on your cartoon today."

It can only be due to your rampant obsession with everything the man does.

July 2, 2012 at 3:29 p.m.
lightkeeper said...

Easy 123 said he could have called Timbo a conservative idiot, but he didn't. Maybe he's just absolutely outraged by partisan misinformation by conservative idiots. Lies about Obama death panels, all you have to do is listen to the GOP wanting to repeal united health care and we know who wants to kill grandma. Conservatives spreading lies about Obama being a Muslim, climate change denial. We can't comprehend how such idiotic abominations could come from so called intellectual individuals. Conservatives are threatened and terrified by global warming because it means the pollution spewing industrial lobbiest stuffing their pockets may be threatened and that their market may fail meaning the government will have to step in to fix the problem, thats why people like conservative just keeps on and on making up ridiculous conspiracy theories that scientists are in league with the UN to crash economies. Now by no means do I want or suggest that industries fold up and thousands of jobs are lost, nor do I advocate heavy pollutng industries destroying the atmosphere either. There are clean energy alternatives the president was trying to present, but of course who wants to stop that....thats right the conservative GOP. Industrialization, deforestation, and pollution have greatly increased atmospheric concentrations of water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide all greenhouse gases that help trap heat near the earths surface. The earth has gone through heating and cooling periods throughout its history but it was not influenced by mans wreckless disregard for nature due to corporate greed and stubborn ignorance. Humans are pouring carbon dioxide into the atmosphere faster than the plants and oceans can absorb it. These gases persists in the atmosphere for years meaning even if such emissions were eliminated today, climate change would not immediately stop. So I guess Republicans feel if they can't drag America back to the smoke stack days jobs can't be created.

July 2, 2012 at 3:36 p.m.
conservative said...

And sheep ( sheep are dumb ) thought it was all about man causing global warming :

Former EU Environment Minister Margot Wallstrom said, "Kyoto is about the economy, about leveling the playing field for big businesses worldwide." Canadian Prime Minster Stephen Harper once dismissed UN's Kyoto Protocol as a “socialist scheme.”

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/1893/Gore-US-Climate-Bill-Will-Help-Bring-About-Global-Governance

July 2, 2012 at 3:43 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Conservatives are threatened and terrified by global warming because it means the pollution spewing industrial lobbiest stuffing their pockets may be threatened and that their market may fail meaning the government will have to step in to fix the problem." - lightkeeper

Methinks you have hit the friggin' nail on the friggin' head. That is precisely what is at the core of the conservative mindset of fear and denial about global warming.

July 2, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.
potcat said...

al, why would you wait till you had three strokes and congestive heart failure and end up with pre-existing conditions and then bitch about not being able to get insurance. Why didn't you have health insurance for at least the last 20 yrs.

Harp wrote, al, your situation is unfortunate but from your past post touting your financial success one would assume you could have afforded to have insurance but chose not to. I work in a factory and pay out the ass for insurance,. Three men in my family drive tractor trailor trucks and pay out the ass for insurance. my Sister is an RN and works for the state Health Dept. and pays out the ass for health insurance.My Brother works as a coach at a college and pays out the ass for insurance. My Mother and Grandmother get medicare and not only pays for that but pays out the ass for supplimental insurance on a fixed income and everyone i've mention is poor and i could go on and on about people who are poor and pay for insurance.

When i had skin cancer and did'nt have insurance, i went through the Health Dept. and they sent me to Erlangers Tumor Clinic, Doctors volunteer and treat every kind of illness for free. You can't have a hundred grand laying around and get the treatment, they treat people who are poor and can't afford insurance, not like big al, who knows it all and should have the integrity and brains to have INSURANCE.

As a matter of fact i am getting treated now for skin cancer thats come back on me, i am going next week for a operation. I have insurance and another doctor but i wish i had my old one at the Tumor Clinic.

I am for Universal insurance for everyone, but that is not what we got. The insurance companies wrote the bill...sweet.

July 2, 2012 at 3:51 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Rickyroo: BHO is a complete incompetent. Is that name-calling or just a fact?

July 2, 2012 at 4:35 p.m.
miraweb said...

I haven't been able to buy private insurance (including life insurance and health insurance) since I was 26 years old due to an illness.

I worked as long as I could but always had to choose employment t large companies with good plans. I would have rather started a business but couldn't take the risk.

I had to retire early and, fortunately, qualified for Medicare under my disability. I like the Parts A and B. Part D (prescriptions) is a joke and only pays about 25% of the cost. Save your money if you ever plan on retiring.

Even if the health care bill isn't perfect, it does fix a major problem with insurers and gives people whose bodies may not be perfect a change to make the life they want to live instead of the life they have to live.

I have other friends who are healthy but who have an ill spouse or child.

One friend has been trapped in a low-paying state secretarial job although she is brilliant with programming computers and if she could take enough time off to get her credentials could have a much better life. Her husband was seriously injured in an accident so her choices are not what she would want. She does the best she can.

I know another man who ran an independent bookstore for years. It finally closed and he went back to school, much relieved that the cost of student insurance was so much cheaper than his business plan that raised the premiums more and more as he got older trying to force him off.

A third man worked and retired from a large company that later shut down. He got his pension benefits (those are protected) but lost his health insurance. Try buying insurance at age 77 with diabetes.

We only have the choices of moving forward or backward. There really isn't any standing still.

I am very glad we found a way to do better than "Health Roulette."

I would be happy to see the Republicans (and Democrats) make this bill the first step to an even better system and fix the flaws that are there.

Still waiting for even one serious proposal.

July 2, 2012 at 4:46 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Potcat, if you can afford to pay out the ass for insurance and still manage to feed your family, keep a roof over your head, pay all of your other bills, and maintain a car or some form of transportation, then good for you. Many people cannot pay out the ass (for health insurance) and pay their other expenses as well. For them, they are paying out the ass already just to meet their more immediate needs. When it's a matter of priorities and you're living paycheck to paycheck you do what you need to do to survive and if you are healthy at the time you just weigh your odds and hope that you don't come down with a serious illness or injury. If we're going to continue to treat health insurance like a commodity, sold on the free market, then it needs to be regulated heavily and made affordable so that the average person can work it into their existing budget of living expenses.

It's good that you have the decency to think that we should have universal coverage, that health insurance should be a right for every American and not just for those who are fortunate enough to have it or wealthy enough to afford it. But you seem very callous in your attitude of not being able to grasp the fact that some people simply cannot afford it, or there are other conditions that prevent them from getting it. You seem to think that if insurance companies want to charge an arm and 2 legs for insurance, well, by cracky, everybody should just bite the bullet and pay it, even if they don't have the money to pay for it.

Miraweb, you raise some valid points about how absurd it is to have our health insurance tied to our place of employment. How many people are unable to do what they really want to do in life, as far as being entrepreneurial or fulfilling some other calling, simply because they have to work at a place that provides health insurance that they could not obtain otherwise? I know so many people who are working at jobs they hate or at best just tolerate because that is the only way they can get quality health care. And just think of the onus it would take off of employers if they did not have to foot the huge bills of insuring their employees. It's preposterous. Universal health care for all is the only sane and practical way to go. We need to get it out of the clutches of private business entirely.

July 2, 2012 at 5:16 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

J_D, the fact is...that is name calling. Obama has done some good things, he's done some not so good things. But to across the board say that he is completely incompetent is a gross exaggeration and an outright lie and you know it. Oh wait...you probably don't know it. You and your government-hating buds are too preoccupied seeing big evil government, liberalism, socialism, marxism, commumism everywhere you look to be able to see with any clarity. Never mind. You are right, then: you are stating a fact....at least in your bizarro world of what constitutes "facts."

July 2, 2012 at 5:26 p.m.

Nice bit of cloud cover overhead, breaking the heat. It might be comfortable tonight.

Hope somebody is getting rain.

July 2, 2012 at 5:44 p.m.
raygunz said...

Gettin' rain in no. Ham. Co. much cooler! Thank you.

July 2, 2012 at 6:02 p.m.
rick1 said...

rickaroo said . If we're going to continue to treat health insurance like a commodity, sold on the free market, then it needs to be regulated heavily and made affordable so that the average person can work it into their existing budget of living expenses.

Read the link listed below and see what happens to cost when the govt. tries to impose price controls. Heavy regulation also increases the cost of insurance. Insruance Companies are mandated to carry certain coverage that you and I may not need but we still must purchase this coverage. Only a certain number of insurance companies are allowed operate in each state. Open it up to competition and the cost will come down. These are a few, which cause prices to increase.

For all of you who think the people who do not currently have health insurance will all of a sudden lead a healthy life you are in for a big surprise. There is a big difference between health care and medical care. Medical care is what the doctor can do for you and health care is what you can do for yourself. Al did not take care of himself for three years. Al did not need health insurance to take care of himself and those who do not have health insurance now and do not take care of themselves will still continue not to take care of themselves because they know they can go to any ER for treatment.

The cost health insurance under Ovomitcare will continue to rise sharply so get ready to pay a whole lot more then what you are paying now.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/05/06/massachusetts-institutes-health-care-price-controls-is-america-next/

July 2, 2012 at 6:04 p.m.
LibDem said...

Rain in my neighborhood as well. It's great!

July 2, 2012 at 6:12 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Rickyroo: Amazin how you can devine what I, and my "government hating buds" believe. I don't hate the govt....I just despise the way it's headed. Deeply apologize for not thinking like you and your ilk.

July 2, 2012 at 6:23 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

You are probably correct, rick1. Strict regulation most likely would not be the way to go. But the insurance companies will never police themselves and they will always put profits before doing whatever it might take to make health care affordable for all. That is why health coverage needs to be taken out of the free market completely. Profit should never be a factor when it comes to the health and well-being of individuals and families.

Conservatives always scream about how expensive universal care would be but we already have the most costly and inefficient system of health care of any industrialized country in the world. The only ones pleased with our system the way it is are those who are fortunate enough or wealthy enough to be insured and who are so unempathetic that they don't care about those who have to do without. We waste more in our current system than most countries even spend on theirs outright. The administrative costs of Medicare have always been and still are are much lower than those of private insurance companies. If we implemented Medicare for all today (or something like it), the money saved in administrative costs alone would probably be enough to pay for itself almost from the get-go, not to mention giving immediate health care to those who would never get it otherwise. But I know that you and the conservative/libertarian contingent won't even consider such a proposal, even though the Medicare model has worked well for decades. More creeping socialism and all that. Evil. Ewww.

July 2, 2012 at 6:28 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

JD, "devining" has nothing to do with it. I have seen enough of your posts to know which way you lean. You lean so far to the right you're practically falling over.

Apology accepted.

July 2, 2012 at 6:36 p.m.
fairmon said...

Alpro said...

And you would be wrong. No insurance company will touch me due to my pre-existing health issues.

I wouldn't insure you now either although collectively we tax payers are about to do so through some carrier which is now a law and OK with me. My main concern is the politicians won't face up to the cost and increase taxes enough to pay for all this "free stuff" people think is coming their way. Have you been uninsurable your whole life? I have paid a small fortune in premiums but if needed I have reasonable coverage with a max out of pocket of several thousand dollars which is no problem with some of the total cost I have seen people have.

July 2, 2012 at 6:41 p.m.
rick1 said...

rickaroo, look at the billions of dollars that our govt wastes or loses each day to abuse and fraud. Do you really believe costs are going to stay low?

You also have to look at the technology that has been developed by medical device companies ( Obama Care has a tax medical devices). We have come so far with medicine and medical procedures in this country because we do not have the govt running our healthcare. I'm sorry to say those advances will not come as fast as they have in the pastwith Obama Care.

Health insurance is expensive but the over regulation (there needs to be some regulation) has caused prices to increase and so has the latest technology. A procedure that use to involve a patient being cut open and spending several days or more in a hospital is now an outpatient procedure. We have drugs, which keeps us living longer. Look at the cancer survial rate in this country vs. countries that have govt run health care. We have a much better servivial rate.

People will not think twice about buying the newest Smart Phone, I Pad 3D HDTV new vehicles and other items but when the cost of insurnace goes up because the newest in medical technology is being used people have a fit.

With ObamaCare we will not have the quality of medical care we have now. This is what people have to think about.

July 2, 2012 at 7 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Rick1,

"I'm sorry to say those advances will not come as fast as they have in the pastwith Obama Care."

Prove it.

"With ObamaCare we will not have the quality of medical care we have now. This is what people have to think about."

Prove it.

Obamacare is not government run healthcare whatsoever. It would appear that you have no clue what the ACA even says or entails. Go read the specifics on the law then get back to me.

July 2, 2012 at 7:05 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy123 undoubtedly already has a copy of ACA, Cliff Notes.

July 2, 2012 at 7:16 p.m.
miraweb said...

Here you go: ACA, Cliff Notes

http://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/PPAACA.aspx

Why do you think the court has so many clerks?

July 2, 2012 at 7:37 p.m.
miraweb said...

Though, the Wikipedia page on the upcoming timelines is pretty useful too:

July 2, 2012 at 7:57 p.m.

Nobody wants to talk about the weather huh?

But abuse and waste? Plenty of that in private companies. Just ask Mitt Romney and Rick Scott.

July 2, 2012 at 8:03 p.m.
alprova said...

potcat wrote: "al, why would you wait till you had three strokes and congestive heart failure and end up with pre-existing conditions and then bitch about not being able to get insurance."

My pre-existing health conditions go further back than just last year. I've been diabetic and have suffered from blood pressure problems for 20 years.

"Why didn't you have health insurance for at least the last 20 yrs."

You know, I don't owe you any explanations, but the fact of the matter is that I had excellent health care benefits in place until January, 2009. Prior to 2003 and for twenty five years going back, I paid for private insurance policies, as I was self-employed.

"Harp wrote, al, your situation is unfortunate but from your past post touting your financial success one would assume you could have afforded to have insurance but chose not to. I work in a factory and pay out the ass for insurance,. Three men in my family drive tractor trailor trucks and pay out the ass for insurance. my Sister is an RN and works for the state Health Dept. and pays out the ass for health insurance.My Brother works as a coach at a college and pays out the ass for insurance. My Mother and Grandmother get medicare and not only pays for that but pays out the ass for supplimental insurance on a fixed income and everyone i've mention is poor and i could go on and on about people who are poor and pay for insurance."

Uh huh...

It took me several months to find employment during 2009. I then took two part-time positions, neither of which offered any benefits, and that which I earned, barely paid the bills.

Late last year, I had scraped enough together to open another business, on a shoestring no less, and I've been holding my own since then. I'm not poor, in the usual sense of the word, but I'm still a long way from being as financially comfortable as I once was.

"When i had skin cancer and did'nt have insurance, i went through the Health Dept. and they sent me to Erlangers Tumor Clinic, Doctors volunteer and treat every kind of illness for free."

Uh huh...

"You can't have a hundred grand laying around and get the treatment, they treat people who are poor and can't afford insurance, not like big al, who knows it all and should have the integrity and brains to have INSURANCE."

I guess you missed the part where I stated that I DO NOT have a hundred grand, you supercilious hen.

I haven't qualified for private insurance that I could begin to afford, since 2002. I took a job with health care benefits, and that job ended in January 2009, through no fault of my own.

"As a matter of fact i am getting treated now for skin cancer thats come back on me, i am going next week for a operation. I have insurance and another doctor but i wish i had my old one at the Tumor Clinic."

I wish you the best of luck.

July 2, 2012 at 8:05 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Cliffs notes don't say squat about unintended (maybe) consequences....you lefties are in complete denial on this.

July 2, 2012 at 8:46 p.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "I wouldn't insure you now either although collectively we tax payers are about to do so through some carrier which is now a law and OK with me."

You can believe it or not, but being uninsured is not the way I want it. I lived my life prior to 2009, being totally responsible and playing the game it was supposed to be played.

As I have related before, I basically started all over at 50 years of age. If not for the fact that all I own was 100% paid for years ago, I would be like so many other people and would have lost everything. I struggled for two and a half years to pay just my monthly bills on what was coming in.

I have had insurer disqualifying health care issues for 20 years, but I had a private health care policy in place prior to 2003, issued in 1983.

That private policy was canceled by the insurance company on the day that my wife had her car crash in 2003. Within months, I sold a very lucrative business to pay for my wife's health care costs, and I took a job with health care benefits about a year later, that job ended in January 2009.

You are free to judge me any way you wish, but the fact is that for the last three years, I've done the best that I could, on about a fifth of what I used to earn, and I'm sorry, but health insurance had to take a back seat to other, more imperative financial concerns.

Of course I regret neglecting my health, but I'm hardly alone in having gone from 'riches to rags,' following the financial collapse that put many people across this nation in the same boat.

The upshot is that today, I'm on the right course again, my health is under control, thanks to the 26 pills I must take each day, and in time, I hope to be insured against major medical expenses. Right now, I'm doing good to pay for the minor expenses.

"Have you been uninsurable your whole life?"

Since the mid-80's, pretty much. I tried in vain to replace that canceled policy in 2003. That's why I held onto that policy that was issued in 1983, despite it costing me more than $1,300 a month. Over the years, I kept upping the deductible, in order to keep the premiums halfway affordable.

July 2, 2012 at 8:48 p.m.
tderng said...

easy123 and rickaroo, Why do you think people from other countries come here for healthcare? Could it be because we have the best medical care in the world? In every country in the world that has gone to socialized medicine the overall care has lessened. Why is that? perhaps its because when you take the incentive of good wages for the doctors out of the equation the best and brightest students go into other professions. What you have left is the low B and C average students going into medicine...see where I am going with this? As far as my medicare coverage with my supplemental carrier who covers my Rx's my co-pay is usually no more than six dollars per prescription as long as I get the generic. For name brands I have to pay much more,but I don't mind getting generic as it's the same medicine just made by a company other than the original makers.

July 2, 2012 at 9:30 p.m.
Easy123 said...

tderng,

Would you like to try again?

Everything you have just said is a generalization of what you think would occur in a country with socialized medicine. However, you're dead wrong.

Doctors in countries with universal healthcare still make good money. They just don't make exorbitant amounts like some doctors in the United States do.

Please prove your claim about the grades of these doctors.

Every prescription in England is $12 (7.65 pound sterling) per item. And that includes ANY prescription.

You don't know what you are talking about.

July 2, 2012 at 9:51 p.m.
tderng said...

Easy123 said... Moonpie,

"If lightkeeper were correct, then Mississippi should be democrats: they are poor, malnoursished, and very unhealthy as a group. They are the opposite of 1% in just about everything.... yet they are very conservative as a state."

perhaps that's because they would rather be poor,malnourished and unhealthy,AND FREE than be under the thumb of the government.

July 2, 2012 at 9:56 p.m.
tderng said...

easy123...perhaps that is why people with very serious health problems flock to the U.K.

July 2, 2012 at 9:59 p.m.
Easy123 said...

tderng,

Baseless rhetoric...

Show me a conservative state that is more free than a liberal one.

July 2, 2012 at 10:03 p.m.
Easy123 said...

tderng,

How could you possibly know where people with serious health problems "flock"?

July 2, 2012 at 10:10 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy123: Terminally naive.

July 2, 2012 at 10:29 p.m.
alprova said...

tderng wrote: "Why do you think people from other countries come here for healthcare? Could it be because we have the best medical care in the world?"

The United States does not have the best medical care in the world, not by a long shot. The fact of the matter is that The World Health Organization rates our system of health care in the United States 37th, when compared to those of 190 other nations.

The top ten nations are;

France, Italy, San Mario, Andorra, Malta, Singapore, Spain, Oman, Austria, & Japan.

Other notable health care rankings?

2nd in terms of what is spent, per person, for health care. 14th in terms of preventable deaths. 14th in global well being (thriving, struggling, & suffering). 23rd in terms of doctors per 1,000 people. 24th in terms of life expectancy. 72nd in terms of overall health.

Rankings in which we excel?

1st in terms of the number of people incarcerated in prisons. 1st in mortality rates for young people (10-24 years of age). 2nd in diabetes prevalence. 2nd in beer consumption. 9th in terms of per person consumption of electricity. 18th in instances of obesity.

"In every country in the world that has gone to socialized medicine the overall care has lessened."

Categorically and factually incorrect. France and Italy have led the world in health care statistics for two decades. Japan, Greece, England, Switzerland, Canada, & Germany have always outranked the United States. Always.

"Why is that? perhaps its because when you take the incentive of good wages for the doctors out of the equation the best and brightest students go into other professions. What you have left is the low B and C average students going into medicine...see where I am going with this?"

You're going nowhere. You're not even gaining any traction. You're just blowing smoke.

The statistics tell the whole story...not the one that includes puffing up one's chest and saluting an American flag in a false demonstration of patriotism.

We haven't led the world in much of anything admirable in quite awhile now.

July 2, 2012 at 10:36 p.m.
tderng said...

easy123...perhaps you are right. I only know that I have heard several stories,on various media outlets,about people who cannot get the care that they need in the country they're in,so they come to the U.S.

As far as freedom in the states,currently,there is no difference but in the future with the progressive agenda...who knows? Maybe these people are only trying to keep America free for their children or grandchildren.If you're old enough to remember the people in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics weren't very free.Their economy eventually collapsed and they were glad it happened because they got a glimpse of freedom.

July 2, 2012 at 10:47 p.m.
miraweb said...

Commie-baiting?? Really?

What's next - zombies?

July 2, 2012 at 11:11 p.m.

Tderng you're confusing certain specialized care with overall quality of care.

Sure, there are procedures which are only available in limited places including the US, but what do you care if you don't have the problem that procedure is meant to treat?

Not much, if you can't afford the basic care you do need.

Besides, medical tourism goes both ways. Many Americans seek treatment abroad for various reasons. Several employer-sponsored plans send people to Singapore , Mexico and Brazil for various procedures.

As for the USSR, recognize the difference between claiming a thing and being a thing. They claimed to be a worker's utopia when in reality they were an authoritarian militarist tyranny. Who knows what they might have achieved had they lived up to their principles?

And if you don't fear too much military spending in the US, you haven't been paying attention.

July 2, 2012 at 11:14 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

alprova. Typical doom and gloom liberal. LIGHTEN UP!! You got your wonderful Obama in the white house, you got your free health care, you have your great spending spree from YOUR party, you got your president working on taxing carbon..etc....good lord man, get a grip, no wonder you're on here 24/7. Who the hell can stand to be around you? What a Debbie downer, all the time. No wonder I don't like liberals! BOO HOO!!!

July 2, 2012 at 11:26 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Toes,

How is AL doom and gloom? By telling a factual story of personal experience? Everything doesn't revolve around politics or if the guy you voted for is in office. Grow up.

July 2, 2012 at 11:29 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

"Problems in France's System France's health care system is the epitome of mismanagement, riddled with opportunism. In France, about half of all the hospitals (and all the largest ones) are state-owned. They are run on the assumption that people will not pay. With high rates of refunds to patients, the system provides virtually free care, attracting clients from beyond the country's borders. It has been said that people from developing nations take cabs directly from the Charles de Gaulle airport to hospitals in Paris and that they can expect that even their taxi fare will be taken care of through French largesse." Dr. Robert Moffit

http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/perspectives-on-the-european-health-care-systems

July 2, 2012 at 11:35 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Grow up?.... That sound funny coming from a guy sitting in mommy's basement.

"We haven't led the world in much of anything admirable in quite awhile now". Whaa! shut up.

July 2, 2012 at 11:38 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"perhaps that's because they would rather be poor,malnourished and unhealthy,AND FREE than be under the thumb of the government." - tdering

Would you like to actually think about what you just said? I mean, really, think about it. If someone is poor, malnourished, and unhealthy, what the hell kind of "freedom" is that?!

You teabaggers have such an overblown fear about living under the government's "thumb" that you're willing to sell your very soul to the fat cats and big business who already have our government under THEIR thumbs. We are no longer a democratic republic, we are a corporatocracy, with our government bought and paid for by the wealthy and the monopolistic corporations. And you pathetic boot lickers just keep helping them get more and more powerful. You are their fawning little peons doing their bidding and you don't have a clue that you're getting screwed. It hasn't caught up to you yet.

July 2, 2012 at 11:42 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Toes,

LOL! Why do you think you know anything about me? Keep making up your little stories. They are always good for a laugh.

July 2, 2012 at 11:46 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

If we spread every penny in the country evenly, we'd all be in poverty. Face it, We all can't be successful, but we can all be poor.

July 2, 2012 at 11:49 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

I know you're full of s#it. That's enough for me.

July 2, 2012 at 11:51 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Toes,

Lol! Of course. Your deduction skills are impeccable. But seriously, grow up!

July 2, 2012 at 11:57 p.m.
fairmon said...

I have been very fortunate regarding my health. I have had one hospital and surgery experience and left without approval before they killed me. I am convinced hospitals are dysfunctional and a high risk place that at times people have no choice but to take that risk. Only with specialized procedures and intensive care is the risk reduced. Otherwise it is like cattle being herded by working dogs for branding. An "emergency" room is the not a place you want to be if you have a serious health situation but there is no good alternative. The AHCA just may improve the situation if emergency rooms are properly staffed and people quit using them as their general practitioner.

July 3, 2012 at 12:02 a.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "alprova. Typical doom and gloom liberal. LIGHTEN UP!!"

I never suggested that all is doom and gloom. I merely pointed out some simple facts. I'm sorry if they depressed you.

"You got your wonderful Obama in the white house, you got your free health care, you have your great spending spree from YOUR party, you got your president working on taxing carbon..etc....good lord man, get a grip, no wonder you're on here 24/7."

1.) 66,882,229 people other than myself voted the man into office.

2.) Not one dime of my health care has been paid by anyone else, so far.

3.) Is your assertion that Republicans have not been guilty of wasteful spending? Sheesh...

4.) I haven't "got my President" doing anything at all.

5.) One of the perks of being the boss, is having a PC on my desk at work, and an internet connection, which I am free to access anytime I choose to do so.

"Who the hell can stand to be around you?"

Lots of people. I have plenty of friends, thank you very much.

"What a Debbie downer, all the time. No wonder I don't like liberals! BOO HOO!!!"

Say what you will, but the truth is the truth. The first step in addressing a problem, is to admit that there is one.

And contrary to Republican/Conservative belief, this nation does indeed have health care problems that are in dire need of addressing.

July 3, 2012 at 12:12 a.m.
alprova said...

TOES, if you're going to attempt to post propaganda, at least try to post it from a site that at least claims to be impartial.

Heritage dot org is totally committed to the conservative cause. They are equally committed to the repeal of ObamaCare and are dumping lots of money to fund that effort.

Therefore, any information supplied by them about healthcare is certainly suspected to be slanted and skewed.

Try as anyone may, the health care system in France is above reproach. It works almost flawlessly. It serves every single citizen of that nation, whether they were born there or not. And, it is rated the numero uno health care system in the entire world.

July 3, 2012 at 12:26 a.m.
alprova said...

TOES 02800 wrote: "If we spread every penny in the country evenly, we'd all be in poverty. Face it, We all can't be successful, but we can all be poor."

The collective wealth of every single American totals approximately $53 trillion. There are about 314 million people in this nation.

Dividing the population into the entire wealth figure, and you arrive at about $168,789.00 for every man, woman, and child who currently lives in the United States.

Would you consider yourself "poor," even given the diminished spending power of today's dollar, if you had that amount of cash at your disposal?

For some people, they could spend that amount in a week. Others, it might last them a few months to a year. Then there are people who could or would invest a good portion of that into a money making venture, who would multiply that cash.

Sales would go through the roof, although good help would be hard to find for a time, until the big spenders will have run through their small fortunes, then it would be back to work for them.

I might be considered to be lots of things, but with just my portion of that amount of liquid cash at my disposal, my future as a former poor person would be well in my rear-view mirror.

July 3, 2012 at 1:12 a.m.
potcat said...

Uh huh, al telling "factual" story of personal experience, Uh huh.

July 3, 2012 at 7:24 a.m.
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