published Sunday, June 3rd, 2012

'Let's be humane to one another' and more Letters to the Editors

Let's be humane to one another

During the Times Free Press-Channel 3 debate, Ron Bhalla, Chuck Fleischmann and Weston Wamp expressed opposition to homosexual marriage.

Now, Charles L. Worley of Providence Road Baptist Church in Maiden, N.C., wants to corral all the lesbian women and homosexual men behind electric fences. He says they would die out in a single generation because they do not procreate. This is true, but are electric fences and food drops the way to treat fellow humans?

It is true that each poor homosexual person with HIV/AIDS costs American taxpayers approximately $400,000 over their lifetime for treatment. Yet, there are thousands of innocent poor with this virus who are not homosexual. Let us all be humane toward one another. None of us are perfect.



Norton deserves to keep his seat

Everyone knows the old saying, "Don't fix it if it ain't broke."

The people of Hamilton County have a great General Sessions Court judge in David Norton, who was appointed in March to fill in for the recently deceased Judge Bob Moon until the next general election.

Judge Norton has three decades of direct experience with a wide range of legal affairs in Hamilton County, having practiced as an attorney since 1977, served as assistant county attorney since 1983, and been elected Soddy-Daisy City judge for three consecutive terms. Proven, respected and committed, Judge Norton is a highly effective Sessions Court judge and deserves to keep his seat on the bench.

A recent poll by Judge Norton's peers, the Chattanooga Bar Association, gave him an outstanding 53 percent vote of confidence on the job he is doing. Look for the name of Judge David Norton on the Aug. 2 ballot and please vote to confirm him in the job he is performing so well!



McCullough treated unfairly

I can't believe that a man like Tom McCullough would be treated like Rick Smith is doing to one of the best principals we have ever had.

I delivered mail to Hixson High School many years ago when Mr. McCullough was principal there, and there was no finer man than Tom McCullough (and still is.)

I still think he should always have been the superintendent of the county schools.

Think still again, Mr. Smith, and let him retire with the respect he deserves.



Mayfield a proven creator of jobs

I recently heard Scottie Mayfield speak to a group of folks about his experience as a business leader at Mayfield Dairy. I've watched some ask why he is running. But after hearing him speak, I know why he will make a good leader for us.

He talked about wanting to cut over-regulation out of business and reform the tax code. As a business owner myself, the regulation that I have to deal with is overwhelming. I have almost closed my business two times in six years, simply because of the regulations that I have to comply with. But reforming the tax code would help, too. It interferes with me making a profit, which is necessary to stay in business.

Scottie spent 40 years at Mayfield and grew the business to 1,450 employees. It's Scottie's business experience that really makes me believe he can help with the economy and help get rid of high unemployment. We need jobs in East Tennessee. I want someone who is a proven job creator. I'm for Mayfield. Let's all be for Mayfield on Aug. 2.


East Ridge

Mayfield hides from the voters

Candidate Scottie Mayfield is running a campaign best described as "duck and run." If he has a position on issues critical to voters in the 3rd District, wouldn't you think it logical he make those positions known? Instead he continues to duck the public forum and run from the press.

His refusal to participate in the recent Republican candidate debate is explainable only on the following basis: 1) He lacks any skills for debate, surely a liability in Congress, or 2) he has no positions on the issues to advance or defend.

I suspect both are true. Ask yourself, what is candidate Mayfield's position on Second Amendment issues, on Medicare/Medicaid, the national debt, proposed cuts to the U.S. military, continued foreign aid to Pakistan and Egypt, etc.? Do you know where candidate Mayfield stands on those critical issues? I don't, and I'm not sure even Mayfield knows. Instead he chooses to hide from the voters, the press and competing candidates. His campaign continues to stumble from one embarrassment to another, all the time avoiding not only the issues but the voters as well.

He recently said he will wait until after his election to formulate positions. We can only hope he is denied the opportunity to do so.



Support move to protect land

Growing up, I was constantly outside, playing in the woods, having adventures with my brother and sister. As we let our imaginations run wild in the back woods behind our home, I came to appreciate and respect the land where I spent many summer afternoons and the wildlife that also called this place home.

The Tennessee Wilderness Act of 2011 permanently protects 19,556 acres of Tennessee's Cherokee National Forest. If passed, the bill would create the first new wilderness area in Tennessee in 25 years. Wilderness is the highest form of protection for our public lands, and we need Congress to take action to designate an area as such. These beautiful expansions are open to all sorts of recreational activity such as fishing, hiking, hunting and camping while preserving the purity of the wild.

Best thing about the bill: it costs the taxpayer nothing. That's why I'm volunteering my time with Tennessee Wild, a group committed to protecting the Cherokee National Forest, at the upcoming Riverbend Festival in Chattanooga

My mother always told me to stand up for what's right and to lead by example. This is what I'm doing.


Be vigilant about your teen drivers

Memorial Day marks the beginning of the 100 deadliest days for teen drivers on our nation's roadways. You may hear about this topic often in the next few months since teen drivers are at their most vulnerable, but safe teen driving is a year-round issue. We need to be vigilant about the safety of our novice drivers every day.

I lead the Tennessee Teen Safe Driving Coalition and am grateful to the Allstate Foundation and the National Safety Council for establishing our coalition and others just like it in nine different states. We work to involve parents, educators, community members and teens in our year-round initiatives. Together, we can curb injuries and fatalities associated with crashes involving teen drivers, not just over the summer, every day.

The next 100 days are a great time for parents to talk with their teens about safe driving. I encourage parents to monitor their teen's driving habits. Be mindful of common crash factors such as driving at night, using a cell phone and carrying passengers. By doing so, parents may prevent their child or someone else from becoming a statistic.


Tennessee Teen Safe Driving Coalition Leader

Jackson, Tenn.

Stop confusing 'lie' and 'lay'

Please help! The national plague confusing lie and lay is getting out of hand! Julia's last drop was to "lie" on the ground, after which she "lay" there a while (I assume).

Seriously, it is embarrassing to have such a glaring grammatical error. Help!


Signal Mountain

Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.

WILLIAM L. SPURGEON, be fair, none of the others could answer those questions, they'd just spew out some drivel that almost sounds like an answer.

June 3, 2012 at 12:38 a.m.
shen said...

Kenn Orr your letter is the primary reason church and state should remain separate, and religion should not be taught in the public schools. We should cringe imagining someone like the North Carolina preacher preaching his hate to a group of impressionable school age students. But it's already taking place as we speak. Most Americans are pretty much isolated and insulated from what's going on in the world around them. They don't realize such atrocities as the Rawandan Genocide were based on biblical scripture.

rsn reports:

The Bible has thousands of passages that may serve as the basis for instruction and inspiration. Not all of them are appropriate in all circumstances.

The story of Saul and the Amalekites is a case in point. It's not a pretty story, and it is often used by people who don't intend to do pretty things. In the book of 1 Samuel (15:3), God said to Saul:

"Now go, attack the Amalekites, and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."

Saul dutifully exterminated the women, the children, the babies and all of the men - but then he spared the king. He also saved some of the tastier looking calves and lambs. God was furious with him for his failure to finish the job.

The story of the Amalekites has been used to justify genocide throughout the ages. According to Pennsylvania State University Professor Philip Jenkins, a contributing editor for the American Conservative, the Puritans used this passage when they wanted to get rid of the Native American tribes. Catholics used it against Protestants, Protestants against Catholics. "In Rwanda in 1994, Hutu preachers invoked King Saul's memory to justify the total slaughter of their Tutsi neighbors," writes Jenkins in his 2011 book, Laying Down the Sword: Why We Can't Ignore the Bible's Violent Verses (HarperCollins).

This fall, more than 100,000 American public school children, ranging in age from four to 12, are scheduled to receive instruction in the lessons of Saul and the Amalekites in the comfort of their own public school classrooms. The instruction, which features in the second week of a weekly "Bible study" course, will come from the Good News Club, an after-school program sponsored by a group called the Child Evangelism Fellowship or CEF.

June 3, 2012 at 8:47 a.m.
Ozzy87 said...

Ken Orr, hypocrite much? If you want to eliminate homosexuals, tell hetereosexuals to quit giving birth to homosexual babies. Considering the vast majority of us are raised by hetereosexuals, that kind of torpedoes your "theory" of extinction.

June 3, 2012 at 9:55 a.m.
Easy123 said...


You stole my thunder! You are exactly right. Homosexuality will never "die off" because of the fact that you stated about heterosexuals giving birth to homosexual offspring.

June 3, 2012 at 11:53 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Christians should call Worley on his rant. Concentration camps anyone?

June 3, 2012 at 12:11 p.m.
Livn4life said...

There go all you Christian-bashers using the Old Testament standards which are the Jewish Laws to condemn Christianity. As for Worley in North Carolina, I know now where he got his ideas for the treatment of lesbians but it does not reflect any who follow the example of Jesus Christ. I am calling Worley on the rant and anyone who hatefully judges another. As for stamping out homosexuality, will we ever stamp out lying, stealing, adultery etc.? The answer is no, but we hopefully will not pretend they are all alright because many in our society are doing them continually. What if someone proclaims they were born with a gene to steal or have more sexual encounters? The key is redemption and moving on from a transformed perspective. But if we have faith in nothing but ourselves and we are the standard, then it is not a very long journey to futility. And we know where that can lead if we are not careful. You folk on here point out the negatives of faith persons(especially Christians). There are many to see. But if you were to be objective in a look back at history, you would find a vastly larger amount of good rather than ill which came about through efforts of Christians. But no, you take one or two or a few who have gone astray and use them as basis for bashing all. That, my enlightened friends, is discrimination and prejudice which you claim to believe about all Christians.

June 3, 2012 at 1 p.m.
Easy123 said...

There go all you Christians claiming the Old Testament doesn't apply to your dogma. Even though you cling to the 10 Commandments, which are in the Old Testament. Your argument doesn't hold up. Matthew 5:17: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

If someone proclaimed those things, they would probably be psychotic or just trying to get out of jail time.

Homosexuality is natural. It occurs in the same incidence in the animal kingdom. There is absolutely nothing "wrong" with it.

Name some good things that came out of Christianity. I can name a whole lot of bad. The Inquisition, witch hunting, the KKK, the Holocaust, the Crusades, slavery, subordination of women, the rape and torture of thousands of Catholic boys and girls by priests and nuns, etc. That's just what I can name off the top of my head. Now it's your turn.

That, my bigoted friends, is delusion and projecting on the part of Christians.

June 3, 2012 at 1:13 p.m.
shen said...

Ozzy87, I think you must have misread Orr's letter. I took it that he's disputing those who attack homosexuals, and used the extremism of the North Carolina preacher as an example to just how outrageous some of these individuals are willing to go as long as they convince themselves their act and actions are being sanctioned by a Christian God.

June 3, 2012 at 1:20 p.m.
shen said...

It's the uneducated in other countries who are targeted for a conversion and purification. They are being taught the extreme version of religion, then provided the resources to turn on one another and their leaders. That, many believe, is actually what is taking place in Syria and other parts of the Middle East and some African nations.

June 3, 2012 at 1:29 p.m.
Easy123 said...

What about homosexuals that pay for their own healthcare? Should we ban sugar too? Because billions of dollars go to pay for Type 2 diabetics every year. And Type 2 diabetes is fully preventable.

Homosexuals don't "choose" their sexuality. Did you "choose" to be a heterosexual?

What about lesbians? They are at the lowest risk for STD's of any group.

Below is a list of diseases caused by heterosexual behaviors:

Chlamydia, CMV, Gonorrhea, HPV, Syphilis, Hepatits A, Shigella, Herpes, Crabs, Scabies, Hepatits B, Trichomoniasis, HIV, AIDS, Hepatitis C, MCV, Granuloma inguinale, Non-gonococcal urethritis.

You do not have a valid argument.

June 3, 2012 at 1:51 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Ken Orr, you usually sprinkle your on-line comments with so many Bible verses that it's hard to get through all the clutter to what your point is. The Bible is little more than clutter and claptrap afterall. You could take out every word in it and just leave the verse of Matthew 7:12 .."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and that would be all the Bible or religion anyone needs to live by. No Ten Commandments, no archaic, draconian Old Testament laws or admonishments, no need for pretentious preachers....just the golden rule.

But your point in your letter to the editor is well made, at least: that indeed we do need to be more humane to each other. However religion almost always serves to divide, especially Christianity with its doctrine of exclusivity. How can Christians be truly humane and loving in their hearts when the very God they worship is himself jealous, vindictive, and malicious - so much so that he sees fit to punish his own children in hell for the mere "sin" of daring to think boldly and freely, not bowing down to the rigid dogma of believing there is only one way to "salvation?" Christians like to refer tho their God as a god of love but how is it possible to call it love when that heavenly father they worship cannot even see fit to allow his children to make up their own minds about things, using the very minds of logic and reason that he endowed them with? Christians like to say their God gives us free will, but how is it free will when their God commands that we believe exactly as he says or else we to are going to hell, there to be punished mercilessly for all eternity? What the Christian calls "free will" is basically God's way or the highway, and that highway, if we dare to choose it and think outside the box, leads straight to hell. In the end the religion that most Christians adhere to is, first and foremost, one of obedience and blind faith, with love being a mere afterthought.

I saw the video clip of that preacher making his disgusting, insidious remarks. I almost felt sorry for the guy - to think of having his life ruled by a hate so strong that it consumes him to that extent. How can anyone have so much hate in their hearts, especially for people he doesn't even know? I was as disgusted by the congregation who were sitting there meekly and muttering in agreement. Wretched fools and spineless sheep, everyone of them. Ah, the humanity of those "loving" Christian folk!

June 3, 2012 at 1:53 p.m.
Ozzy87 said...

Shen, try telling the EDUCATED Marcus and Michele Bachmann, Exodus International, the Family Research Council, and the National Organization for Marriage. ALL of those ( and more ) believe in re-orientation therapy. Even though re-orientation therapy has a documented 99.8 % failure rate. Ken Orr, just in case you didn't know : hetereosexuals can develop every disease you listed as well.

June 3, 2012 at 2:06 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

L4L, you profess to have an enlightened view of Christianity, putting the Old Testament in its proper perspective of being nothing more than archaic Jewish law, and that's to be commended, at least. But then you proceed to lump homosexuals in with liars and thieves and adulterers. That's rich. You pretend to be above the despicable attitude of that N.C. preacher, yet your view of gays is just as narrow and hateful. You cannot allow yourself to see them as fully formed children of God but somehow flawed and in need of "redemption."

The typical saying that so many Cristians like to fall back on in an attempt to make people think they're not judging them is that they "hate the sin but love the sinner." And that is crap. Christianity, by its very nature, cannot be anything other than a religion of self righteousness. As long as you think that your way of believing is the only way to believe and that all others are somehow on the wrong path and are even going to hell, then you, my friend, are self righteous. Period.

June 3, 2012 at 2:45 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Re-orientation therapy is heinous and unconscionable. The ones who submit to it are basically so confused that they believe the BS that their Christian friends or family have pounded into them: that they are wrong or misguided to give in to their "unnatural" sexual desires. The "therapy" that they undergo aims to control those urges, or in other words, to resist them and never act out on them. But for a true homosexual those urges will never go away but forever remain repressed. Those few who have claimed to be "transformed" are actually just repressing their biologically natural urges and forcing themselves to indulge in something totally unnatural (for them). Thus they live their entire lives not really being in touch with their true selves and pretending to be someone they are not. It's sad, really. And the ones who lead these preposterous clinics should be looked at with nothing but derision and contempt.

June 3, 2012 at 3:08 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Sexual acts between an 11 year old child and a fully grown adult is a crime. It is not homosexuality. Shame on you for trying to equate them. Most adults that abuse children are men who abuse girls. Does that make it "okay" because it is not "gay"?

June 3, 2012 at 4:36 p.m.
Easy123 said...


You can't argue with KEN ORR. He will come back and tell you how much your opinion means to him then post something else about how gays molest boys or whatever else he can make up.

June 3, 2012 at 4:45 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I am aware of that possibility, Easy, but I owe it to my gay friends to call out this fallacy every time I see it.

June 3, 2012 at 4:47 p.m.
Easy123 said...

There is something like this in the US. It's called the Catholic Church.

June 3, 2012 at 4:49 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ken Orr, your attempt to equate homosexuality with pedophilia is dishonest and wrong. You, sir, are "Liar for Jesus".

As for NAMBLA, it is not a legit organization, has less than 2000 members, and has been condemned by all organized gay groups. NO ONE, gay or straight, should approve of the sexual abuse of children.

June 3, 2012 at 5:10 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You are if you use NAMBLA as an excuse to deny gays their full rights as citizens, Ken Orr.

June 3, 2012 at 5:20 p.m.
shen said...

Ozzy87, I'm not arguing with you. Iactually wholeheartedly. But I took Orr's letter as someone who's attempting to speak up on behalf of gays and at the same time remain true to his christian faith and beliefs. Sort of a fence straddler. Sort of like that hate the sin love the sinner stance so many in the church feel they must do in order to remain on good terms with the church.

June 3, 2012 at 5:50 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I stand by my comment, Ken Orr. By linking gays with Nambla, you are trying to impart the impression that homosexuality and pedophilia are related, and implying that gays are to be condemned the same way that pedophiles are. Most gays that I know are horrified by the idea of exploiting children. This is a dishonest and cruel tact, and you are wrong, wrong, wrong to do this.

June 3, 2012 at 7:29 p.m.
Ozzy87 said...

Shen, he wears his religion on his sleeve. What about breaking one of the big 10? Bearing false witness against neighbors? How about being sanctimonious? If he wears polly/cotton clothing, eats bacon, sausage, oysters, lobster, or shrimp, he'll be toasting his feet right beside mine.

June 3, 2012 at 7:43 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

The very mention of this organization NAMBLA has no place in the discussion of gay/civil rights. What two consenting adults (hetero- or homo-) do in their privacy has nothing to do with a small fringe organization that condones what basically seems to be pedophilia. The fact that Ken Orr is fixated on this organization and happens to mention it in the same discussion with gay/civil rights shows that either he cannot rationally differentiate between man/boy pedophilia and adult homosexuality, or else he is simply so fixated on it he cannot resist talking about it, even at inappropriate times. Mr. Orr, if you truly believe what you said in your earlier post about not equating pedophilia with homosexuality between consenting adults, then why don't you just cease and desist talking about NAMBLA here and save your comments on it for another time, perhaps when it would be more in line with the topic of discussion?

June 3, 2012 at 8:13 p.m.
shen said...

Ozzy87, you seem to know Orr personally, and have a wider knowledge of his belief system. If so, I understand. I don't know him and was just interpeting his letter both the same as you, but also in the sense that he was suggesting others to not judge harshly. Sorry.

June 3, 2012 at 8:35 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Homosexuality is not a choice.

June 4, 2012 at 12:45 a.m.
Easy123 said...

The several twin studies do not support your argument. "Choice" does not play a role in any of those studies whatsoever. Most scientists believe it is a mix between nature and nurture. NOT CHOICE.

Just you clarify, you can not "choose" a preference. Preferring one thing over another is involuntary. You can choose what your body or mind prefer. Some people prefer chocolate, others prefer vanilla. No one chooses which flavor their body likes more. This is a huge flaw in your baseless argument.

Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like heterosexuality is not a choice. Why can't you understand that?

Also, this propaganda you are spreading about HIV and AIDS patients costing "innocent tax payers" money is ridiculous. It means absolutely nothing. What about HIV/AIDS patients that pay for their own healthcare? You have failed to address that.

I pity your ignorance. Your religion and the Bible have BLINDED you to reality. Wake up. You are wrong. Absolutely wrong. And an overt hypocrite on top of that.

June 4, 2012 at 1:44 a.m.
degage said...

I happen to believe in God, so many of you think I shouldn't. If you don't believe ok but leave me alone and stop calling me names for it. When our time comes we will get all the answers.

June 4, 2012 at 6:48 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Who said they think you shouldn't?

June 4, 2012 at 6:54 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

degage, what are you talking about? No one said anything about you. Unless, of course, you are one of the posters above using a different name.

June 4, 2012 at 7:38 a.m.
degage said...

How sad, actually easy you have with all your rantings about christians. believe what you wish. Ikeithlu, you say it about me because you say it about all christians. And no I'm not a poster by a different name, are you?

June 4, 2012 at 8:18 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I never said anything about Christians, positive or negative. And no one directed a comment towards you or called you names, degage.

Just curious-would you support anything a Christian said, even if it was hateful or wrong?

June 4, 2012 at 8:34 a.m.
degage said...

I don't support anything hateful by anyone, athiest or christian.

June 4, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
Easy123 said...

I never said anything about what anyone should believe.

Do you support the Christian view on homosexuality? Because that "view" is intrinsically hateful.

June 4, 2012 at 9:03 a.m.
degage said...

I have no view on homosexuality, each person has to make that decision for themselves and answer to that at the end. This discusion is out of control.

June 4, 2012 at 9:53 a.m.
Easy123 said...

What decision?

June 4, 2012 at 9:59 a.m.

You know Ken Orr would probably be upset if he were aware that the FBI knows of several organizations advocating the legalization of sex with children of all ages and both genders.

More importantly, they know of many criminals engaging in that behavior, as well as people profiteering from it.

June 4, 2012 at 11:04 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

It as useless arguing with Old Testament referencing christians about homosexuality as it is arguing with global warming deniers about global warming. They all deny the obvious evidence in front of them. Degage, like so many others, pretends to be a christian who does not judge others but he/she insists on believing that gays "decide" how to be and that it is up to his God to punish the sinners or non-believers. It is not the fact that you believe in God, degage, that I take exception with, but the nature of the God that you CHOOSE to believe in - one that is so petty, jealous, and vindictive that he is going to punish ruthlessly and mercilessly anyone who does not believe like he commands that they believe.

It is not homosexuals who are choosing to be the way they are but you who are choosing what sort of God to worship. And don't tell me that your God is just the way he is and it is not up to you to decide God's nature. There is not one depiction or description of God that we have that has not been handed down to us by the imagination of primitive man. Your Bible is not God describing himself to us but the humans who have gone before us relating their own imaginings of what they think God is. We are not created in God's image but God whose image has been created by humans to support the sort of God they CHOOSE to believe in.

Degage, you say you "don't support anything hateful by anyone, atheist or christian." Then how 'bout you stop supporting and worshiping a hateful god?

June 4, 2012 at noon
degage said...

rickaroo,How about you believe what you want and stop putting down someone else for what they believe. You are tiresome.

June 4, 2012 at 1:12 p.m.
Easy123 said...

He didn't put you down. He called you out.

June 4, 2012 at 1:19 p.m.
degage said...

same thing.

June 4, 2012 at 1:24 p.m.
Fendrel said...


A common misunderstanding is that identical twins are also genetically identical. While that was the common theory we now also know that even between identical twins there exists something referred to as CNV (Copy Number Variation) which we believe may be responsible for such things as why one twin develops Parkinson's disease and the other does not.

In the recent past we believed the only differences to be environmental, but that is no longer the case.

June 4, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.
dao1980 said...

Poor ol' dagage, just want's to participate in public forum, but can't stomach the reality of confrontation... What to do, what to do?!

Ken is still being a dishonest double-talking self worshiper I see. How shameful, to claim the holy rollin' high road as you trudge through the sewers of Freudian self gratification.

When will ol' Ken submit to the reality that the voices in his head aren't God..

June 4, 2012 at 2:05 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

I truly respect anyone's spiritual beliefs as long as they in turn respect those of others. But you cannot worship a god who condemns people of other faiths or beliefs to hell and then you try to tell me that you respect others' beliefs. As long as you worship a judging and vengeful god you are complicit in his lack of respect for a person choosing his/her own way to believe.

You know what's "tiresome," degage? Your petty, mean-spirited belief system called christianity and the stranglehold it has on this country. It hangs over our politics and our society like a dark cloud, polluting everything and making it harder for the light of truth to shine through. Open your mind and your eyes. THINK for yourself. It doesn't take a super intellect to see all the holes, absurdities, and contradictions in your Bible. Most 12-yr.-olds can see them easily.

Now, you may feel "put down" if you wish. Indeed I do put down hate and bigotry and small mindedness. That is primarily what christians like you represent, even though you keep saying you respect others and don't judge them. It's one thing to judge others but another thing to judge and not even be aware that you are doing it.

June 4, 2012 at 2:15 p.m.
Fendrel said...

I respect a person's right to hold to whatever beliefs they choose, but that does not mean that I must, or even should, give any respect to the ideas themselves, any more than I would respect the idea that Elvis is still alive or that the Earth is really flat or that the Holocaust never happened.

They are silly ideas, without any empirical support and fly in the face of common sense and reason...they deserve no respect and people who wish to hold on to those ideas, while they may have the right to do so, should pretty much expect those ideas to be laughed at and ridiculed, as well as to have their own sanity or reasoning skills called into question.

Religious ideas are not sacred cows, immune from criticism. In a modern society every idea should be open to public criticism and have to stand on its own merits.

June 4, 2012 at 3:10 p.m.
Easy123 said...


Precisely! Very thoughtful post and very well written.

Around the world, it has become taboo to speak negatively of any religion. It is necessary for logical and reasonable people to call these beliefs into question. If you hold a belief in something, religion or not, you should be able to defend it or at least reconcile it rationally with our natural world. I believe this is the problem with all religion. They CANNOT base their beliefs on fact or anything apparent in nature or the cosmos. Religion HAS to be accepted on faith. There are no proofs for any deity, much less a personal one that listens to prayers , etc. Religion must be scrutinized by everyone. The search for truth should never end and the dogma and blind faith of religious should not be seen as virtuous. Faith is the least of the virtues.

June 4, 2012 at 3:26 p.m.
Plato said...

Homosexuality is the result of a very strong masculine soul reincarnated into a female or a very strong feminine soul reincarnated into a male. This also explains why a good many gay people are actually bisexual. Their physical appearance and environmental factors conflict with their reincarnated self.

It has noting to do with "decisions".

There is strong evidence to support reincarnation, and the majority of people world wide recognize it's existence. In fact it was part of the Christian Bible early on until Constantine had it removed. This is the only explanation for homosexuality that actually makes sense.

June 4, 2012 at 11:12 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

What is this obsession with disproving homosexuality as a choice? (Which you are failing at) What is this obsession with trying to show (using dishonest means because it isn't true) that homosexuals are a threat or a burden to society? Methinks you may be gay yourself and it terrifies you.

June 5, 2012 at 8:46 a.m.
Fendrel said...


God seemed to enjoy young girls. Mary was most likely between 12 and 13 when Jesus was born...does that make God a pedophile. Just curious what the Christian spin on that one will look like.

Before the rocks start I am not advocating pedophilia, but let's at least be consistent with our arguments.

June 5, 2012 at 3:48 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Oops-correction. Mr. Orr is trying to prove it's a choice. Curious though, I came back all this time later and there is no response. Maybe I'm getting close?

June 5, 2012 at 5:28 p.m.
degage said...

It's strange how all of you that hate christianity can say such hateful things then try to put it on the christians,bible and God. You are so filled with hate its beyond reason. You accuse christians of saying hateful things but you are far more hateful and vocal about it. Just go back and read your rants.

June 5, 2012 at 9:27 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

degage, unless you want to come off as a whiny crank, direct specific claims about specific poster's comments, rather than just making generalized complaints against unnamed people about perceived offenses.

June 6, 2012 at 1:32 p.m.

degage, do you realize that you just accused others of saying hateful things yourself, without even being specific about it?

June 7, 2012 at 12:02 a.m.
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