published Thursday, June 7th, 2012

Stockholm Syndrome

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Watch the fuming rage at this cartoon develop.

Such reactive anger is actually a symptom of the syndrome.

June 7, 2012 at 12:02 a.m.
Easy123 said...

I can't wait to read all the anger-filled, Republican death-to-Clay Bennett rants!

June 7, 2012 at 12:38 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Not from me. Simply see a not very good cartoon.

June 7, 2012 at 12:39 a.m.
alprova said...

Mr. Bennett, I busted out laughing when I saw this one. Bravo!!

The rants from the usual suspects will surely fill the page today.

June 7, 2012 at 1:24 a.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "Not from me. Simply see a not very good cartoon."

And? From what I've observed, your usual demeanor and contribution is to make snide comments toward others. You are what most people call a curmudgeon.

I'm betting that you are a senior citizen too.

June 7, 2012 at 1:28 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Do Republicans on here really think it is a good thing to take away the collective bargaining rights from public employees? Or is it just a Republican win and you don't care about the negatives? I'd love to know.

Because it seems like what Walker did by eliminating those rights was very unfair, wrong, and hurt a lot of people. But that's just my opinion. I'm sure you Republicans see it another way.

June 7, 2012 at 1:37 a.m.
anniebelle said...

MADISON — Out-of-state donors kept pumping cash into Scott Walker's campaign last month as the embattled Republican governor made his final preparations to face this week's historic recall. Most of that money from the Koch brothers and the RNC's sugar daddies that don't believe in democracy -- aiming for a Plutocracy in this great country. Walker had 30 million in his funds while Barrett only had 3 million -- is the republican soul really that easily bought? Oh, never mind, they don't have a soul, period!

June 7, 2012 at 5:38 a.m.
WHS1970 said...

I'm afraid it's a sign of the times anniebelle.

June 7, 2012 at 5:54 a.m.
dougmusn said...

40 hour work week; time off from work; end of child labor; prevention of toxic exposures and work site risks; a minimum wage

We may not always like unions but we sure like the benefits they have given to the rest of us wage slaves. The corporatists are interested in the corporation, the profit, the icing on the cake and not the commonweal. To the right I would only say this: be careful what you wish for. Soon our pluto-kelpto-kakocracy will give away something you care about.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
June 7, 2012 at 5:58 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

alprova, love a supposed "senior citizen" as you would have Young Republicans do unto you. We're all heading for senior, senor.

Walker inherited a deficit and balanced the budget; that's better than our President did. (Are Obama's backers Stockholmites, Clay?) He didn't fire bunches of people. He had tax-paid people pay into their own pension funds as business-paid people do. And do federal workers have the collective bargaining rights Wisconsin took from its employees? (Those I might not mind. source: Hannity). GOP spending in these Wisconsin recalls, $73 million to Dem $31 million or so; anniebelle's statistic cherrypicked? (source: National Review).

Jesus is libertarian. (source: Bible.)

June 7, 2012 at 6:04 a.m.
jesse said...

hey alprova?

what do you think of nooga's contribution's and demeanor?

June 7, 2012 at 6:07 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Andrew - Atlas Shrugged is not scripture! You would be hard-pressed to find anything in the Bible to justify the practice of balancing state budgets by breaking prior commitments with public servants. Yet, that is exactly what Scott Walker did. The prophet Amos had a lot to say about the Republican understanding of free-market economics and Amos' message contradicts your warped notion of Jesus, the libertarian.

We are a selfish people! We expect government to do our bidding and we expect somebody else to pay for it. And, as a democracy, we will get the government and country that we deserve.

June 7, 2012 at 6:32 a.m.
MTJohn said...

This cartoon could just as easily been the Tea Party expressing its affection for Karl Rove. What's the Matter with Kansas? has become what's the matter with this country? We have given tax breaks to the rich and paid for it with, among other things, IOU's to the social security trust fund. What have we received in return? An economy that works for the 1% at the expense of the rest of us; a deeply divided country; a health industry that serves the interests of stockholders at the expense of patients; etc. etc. This system is no longer sustainable. Refusal to face reality, coupled with a healthy dose of supply side economic thinking, bought our current mess and we won't fix the problem with more of that kind of logic.

June 7, 2012 at 6:41 a.m.
cactus said...

This is just the beginning:

"Cruel June for Obama and democrats and it could get worse."

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/jun/07/cruel-june-obama-demcrats-and-it-could-get-worse/?breakingnews

June 7, 2012 at 6:55 a.m.
joneses said...

Why would anyone be angry at such a stupid biased liberal lie of a cartoon? Scott Walker has Wisconsin in the best financial shape it has ever been in. You misguided liberals think massive debt, high unemployment, more people dependent on government, lazy, over paid, union workers are a good thing so I can see where you would dislike Scott Walker. You spout off about the Republicans spending more money to keep Scott Walker in office but you say nothing about how Hussein Obama spent more money than McCain so he can ruin the country. Another fine example of fine liberal hypocrisy. I want to know why you give Hussein Obama a pass after you elected him to cut the debt in half and he has added over 5 trillion dollars to the debt. Does that not piss you off? Or are you to afraid to stand up to him and say he was wrong?

June 7, 2012 at 7:04 a.m.
joneses said...

Of course we conservatives are going to comment on these stupid biased cartoons. Are you so stupid to think we would not? You liberals show exactly how much intellect you lack by stating the obvious about us commenting on these stupid, biased, dishonest, liberal cartoons. You lost in Wisconsin, get over it. The majority of America is sick and tired of you parasitic leaches mooching off us hard working Americans.

June 7, 2012 at 7:09 a.m.
patriot1 said...

Workers are no longer shook down by union thugs in order to keep their jobs. They are free to choose to join or not join a union. A little taste of freedom....what could possibly be wrong with that?

June 7, 2012 at 7:31 a.m.
Easy123 said...

How is that the case? Public employees lost their collective bargaining rights. About 35% of the workforce. How is this a good thing? This is the government taking away the rights of workers, not liberating them.

June 7, 2012 at 7:43 a.m.

Funny thing is it is the hypocrats (democrats + hypocrites = hypocrats) that are the ones up in arms. They lost this election twice, and this time by even a larger margin. There were people that votes against him the 1st election that voted for him Tuesday because of the way he has turned the economic picture around for that state, which means he is doing a good job as the Governor there.

June 7, 2012 at 8:08 a.m.

Fuming from the right? How so?

Pre Scott Walker, the unions were taking the dues from every public employee every pay period without their consent. Today, Wisc. public employees have a choice whether or not to join the unions and pay dues. In just a few months, the membership of the unions is DOWN 60%.

So yes, choice is always good and the employees have voted with their pocketbooks.

June 7, 2012 at 8:10 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

alprova: There you go again proving my point. Lefties stereotyping others. Waging war on the seasoned citizen. What next, death panels? HAHAHAHA

June 7, 2012 at 8:22 a.m.
librul said...

So .. letting the Koch brothers dangle a tea party puppet governor in front of the pitifully propagandized people of Wisconsin who will do the bidding of their fascist club of zillionaires while bringing misery to the masses in their state is a good thing? I think it is a prescription for the destruction of America.

June 7, 2012 at 8:28 a.m.
MTJohn said...

I find it more than a little ironic that "right to work" laws are not promoted by workers but by employers who have no interested in fairly compensating their employees.

June 7, 2012 at 8:45 a.m.

Stupid and silly cartoon. Typical

Scott Walker won twice. For those of you who don't understand that, it means he had the majority of the votes. That means the majority want him as governor. Get over it. Scott Walker isn't fooling anyone. He said what he wanted to do and he did it. If Obama had to endure a recall vote in 2010, I doubt he would've won by 7 points, or even won at all.

What this Wisconsin situation has shown me is how unbelievably immature and greedy the left is. Death threats, crying, whining. Get over it. GEEZ!

Scott Walker won because the majority of the people in Wisconsin agree with what he's doing. That majority of also includes many Democrats who are sick and tired of irresponsible government.

June 7, 2012 at 9:02 a.m.
conservative said...

Blondie, you are correct. However I don't want them to get over it. I want them to whine and whine and whine.

They are whiners and losers and I want them identified so others may no longer be led astray by them.

Whine on. Whine on. Make my day.

June 7, 2012 at 9:11 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

How are you this happy about WISCONSIN election results? Your comments are bordering on insanity.

June 7, 2012 at 9:16 a.m.

You might be right, Conservative. It really shows what they're made of. It's sickening.

Another thing, to whine about the Koch brothers is so hypocritical. I'm sure many on here can name a ton of groups and individuals who toss their money around for the left.

June 7, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.
chatt_man said...

A little whine with that cheese??? (Oh, that was ugly)

In the link that cactus posted, Alice Hastings, D-Fla. states Obama should have gone to Wisconsin to help Barrett. And goes on to say “I don’t understand what he stood to lose in Wisconsin. I can’t make that make sense,”

What? The reason Obama didn't go to help is because he HATES to lose, and he knew he would. It is pitiful how our "all about me" President is fostering an "all about me" society.

June 7, 2012 at 9:32 a.m.
conservative said...

Blondie...

I strongly believe that if you can get a Lieberal to speak. He will hang himself with his own words.

How do you get them to reveal themselves? Just tell the truth. Since they are enemies of the truth they will respond, they can't help themselves.

June 7, 2012 at 9:39 a.m.
alprova said...

There are two major employers right here in Chattanooga that routinely purge employees who have achieved several years on the job, who are making decent wages, and management decides to replace them with minimum wage workers to save some bucks. After all, you can train a monkey to do most of the jobs that they offer...right?

This is the end result that plagues so many people who live in "right to work" states. "Right to work" is code for "right to fire" for any reason under the Sun. In this area, you can be fired for being too ugly in your employer's estimation and there's nothing that anyone can do about it.

Sooner or later, some of you people who are so anti-union and Republican sympathizers, will live to regret what you now support.

You foolishly think that your good job is safe and will be yours forever because you show up on time each day, do your job well, and are totally dedicated to the company. Your employer might get it in his or her head one day that the company would make more by saving on labor costs and by hiring a new set of monkeys.

June 7, 2012 at 9:40 a.m.
limric said...

Great cartoon Clay. Great posts by Dougmusn and Alprova.

Every so often the chickens will vote for Colonel Sanders. Welcome to the harmonious blending corporate & political power. AKA as fascism – now and forever accommodated by the ignorance of an ill-educated (by design) modern television infatuated nation, reduced to such stupidity they are easily conned into voting against their own interests; Thus supporting the very people that wish to enslave them.

In this country, the phrase "common sense" has become an oxymoron, whereas “divide and conquer” is the rights new pledge of allegiance.

Hmm… But then again, maybe we should think of voting Republican in the upcoming elections; "because if they win, they’ll have to stop sabotaging our country just to make Obama look bad."

Nah, that won’t make any difference.

June 7, 2012 at 9:53 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Put an end to this squabble in Wisconsin. Let the voters decide....

June 7, 2012 at 9:59 a.m.
mymy said...

Every day on this site we see who is really suffering from this syndrome.

Because of public employee unions, governments from bottom to top are going broke. Apparently, they cannot understand simple math and wrongdoing.

It is going on in California and other places in this country not just Wis.

California pension cuts may have ripple effect:

“San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed and former San Jose Vice Mayor Pat Dando at a campaign party in San Jose, Calif., Tuesday, June 5, 2012. As state and local governments across the country struggle with ballooning pension obligations, voters in two major California cities cast ballots Tuesday on sweeping measures to curb retirement benefits for government workers. Reed, a Democrat, joined an 8-3 City Council majority to put San Jose Measure B on pension reform on the ballot.”

“Supporters in both cities relied on a simple pitch: Benefits beyond what most voters receive working at private companies are draining city coffers."

“San Diego's payments to the city's retirement fund soared from $43 million in 1999 to $231.2 million this year, equal to 20 percent of the city's general fund budget, which pays for day-to-day operations.”

“As the pension payments grew, San Diego's 1.3 million residents saw roads deteriorate and libraries cut hours. For a while, some fire stations had to share engines and trucks. The city has cut its workforce 14 percent since 2005.”

“San Jose's pension payments jumped from $73 million in 2001 to $245 million this year, equal to 27 percent of its general fund budget. Voters there approved construction bonds at the beginning of the last decade, but four new libraries and a police station have never opened because the city cannot afford to operate them. The city of 960,000 cut its workforce 27 percent over the last 10 years.”

“San Diego Councilman Carl DeMaio staked his mayoral bid on the pension measure, using fiery rhetoric to criticize public employee unions. He advanced to a November runoff in Tuesday's election.” "San Diego is showing the way," DeMaio said Wednesday. "The question is whether other jurisdictions have the political backbone to get the job done."

http://www.nctimes.com/business/california-cities-vote-on-public-pension-cuts/article_f7eeb4b4-256d-52a1-b1d4-eb64c4ccdb5f.html

More articles on California’s problems, but it goes on all over this country.

http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/category/big-public-pension-club/

June 7, 2012 at 10:04 a.m.
CardVol said...

The hostages in Wisconsin were the taxpayers. They spoke loudly on Tuesday. It will get a lot louder.

June 7, 2012 at 10:07 a.m.
mymy said...

In his own words Obama shows what a piece trash he is and why it is time to disinfect the White House. The most unprepared and classless man to occupy the WH. Of course, those who worship him thinks he’s cool. Excuuuuuuse me!

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/06/obamas-risqu-joke-125518.html

June 7, 2012 at 10:12 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Frankie Roosevelt completely abolished bargaining rights for federal workers. All Walker did was make state workers pay some of their own benefits and put some limits on Collective bargaining. Yet Frankie Roosevelt is an iconic hero of the left....huh....well waddyaknow!

June 7, 2012 at 10:24 a.m.
quietreader said...

The only people benefitting from unions these days seem to be the union officials. Apparently the people in Wisconsin were awakened to that fact and said enough is enough. Most of the people in this country do fine without collective bargaining. We have laws that protect workers these days. I can't see paying extra for some imaginary safety net supposedly provided by a union.

June 7, 2012 at 10:25 a.m.
CardVol said...

Don't try to confuse them with facts TOES2800.

June 7, 2012 at 10:27 a.m.
prairie_dog said...

The people spoke.

TWICE.

Get over it.

As a matter of fact, why not get a job? (Because it would be too much work . . . and the code is broken.)

June 7, 2012 at 10:28 a.m.
chatt_man said...

alprova,

Your statements act as if we are guaranteed a job, owed a job, or entitled to a job, and it always has to pay the same, or more, and the businesses are there only to give us a job. The fact is we are not. And, before you say I've never been out of a job, I have, and my wife is now. We cashed out the equity in our house two years ago to survive.

That's what liberals don't seem to understand. We have to conduct ourselves appropriately, make an effort, and show an employer we are worth hiring.

Employers need good employees. They need them to run their businesses. Not all positions can be filled by monkeys. If you work for a company that treats you like crap, you have the opportunity (in these United states, until the liberals have the government running everything) to get a better job with another company. (as long as regulations aren't so strapping that the businesses go away)

If we continue to beat up the businesses (that need good workers, make yourself a good worker), then the government has to step in and take over that needed service or product. If that continues, eventually the government owns everything. And we all know, or most of us, how that turns out.

June 7, 2012 at 10:33 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

And having a balanced budget is like being in prison??

According to liberal mindsets, it's "fair" to take money from a non-union worker making $45,000 a year and give it to union employees making much more than that. Talk about twisted logic!

To take money from someone who works until he's 65 or 70 and give it to a union guy who can retire at 50 is absolutely sickening!

And what's "fair" about unions bargaining for taxpayer dollars when they won't even let the taxpayer have a say in the bargaining? If unions want to bargain for money, fine! Let them do it with their own money.

June 7, 2012 at 10:36 a.m.
limric said...

Chatt_man said...Quote, “The reason Obama didn't go to help is because he HATES to lose, and he knew he would. It is pitiful how our "all about me" President is fostering an "all about me" society.”

WRONG! The DNC and Obomber shunned Wisconsin because it was a threat to its own corporate and Wall Street benefactors.

By refusing to get involved, as he said he would, Obama sealed his fate. He won't be reelected.

Those that create a problem use your reaction to put in place a solution that inevitably increases their power:

Problem / Reaction / Solution. We are being manipulated by 'The Hegelian Dialectic'.

June 7, 2012 at 10:38 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Lost the election. Lost the recall. Two-time losers in the most Lib-tard state this side of Massapolution. Where do losers belong. In jail, so really this is a good cartoon. And yes, most libs suffer from some form of dementia, might as well be t his.

June 7, 2012 at 10:45 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Chattman,

That is exactly the opposite of what ALPROVA's post said.

June 7, 2012 at 10:46 a.m.
conservative said...

The unions funneled money to Demoncrats who in turn funneled other people's money in much greater amounts to unions.

The other people caught on to the money laundering scheme and voted in their interest instead of the unions.

Whine on. Whine on. Don't stop whining. Make my day.

June 7, 2012 at 10:48 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Whatsnottaken,

Why do you consider Wisconsin a liberal state? 4 of their last 6 governors were Republican.

June 7, 2012 at 10:51 a.m.

This cartoon is an insult to those who voted to keep Walker in office. 7 points is a pretty stong statement.

This is a wishful thinking cartoon. Taxpayer were the hostage in Wisconsin. Unions are saying, screw those who are unemployed or under employed, you will continue to make sure we live the high life. So shut up and pay.

They hate Walker with a passion because he simply pointed out it's not sustainable. Grow up!

I find teachers unions to be particularly vulgar.

June 7, 2012 at 11:07 a.m.
chatt_man said...

Easy,

If this excerpt from alprova's post doesn't sound like we're owed a job, then I don't know what does.

"You foolishly think that your good job is safe and will be yours forever because you show up on time each day, do your job well, and are totally dedicated to the company. Your employer might get it in his or her head one day that the company would make more by saving on labor costs and by hiring a new set of monkeys.

The truth is... this is just like when companies replace people with automation. There are reasons beyond your control that you may lose your job. You better do the right things to make yourself employable, or you will fall dependent on the government (other people's money) and lose some freedoms.

limric - I guess I'm slow today... I don't understand your statement "The DNC and Obomber shunned Wisconsin because it was a threat to its own corporate and Wall Street benefactors. Could you elaborate, please?

And unfortunately, that video you posted is probably correct...

June 7, 2012 at 11:16 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

"It's our taxes paying their health care after they retire, and we don't have anything like that? It's our taxes paying them? And they're out there saying, 'Gimme more! Gimme more! Gimme more!' They're out there with a sense of entitlement. 'It's mine, it's mine, it's mine.' And they're tearing things up like state capitol building if they don't get their way like a bunch of spoiled-rotten kids?" People are finally saying, "No more," and, "If we'd-a known this 30 years ago, we'd-a stopped it then."

That quote says it all!

June 7, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

I agree chatt_man. If most public employee union workers had to rely on work ethic to retain their jobs, They'd be on the streets.

June 7, 2012 at 11:27 a.m.

Amazing how Democrats on here are trying to turn this into a victory of some sort. The man won twice and the best Clay Bennett can come up with is "Stockholm syndrome" Did everyone see the cry baby, teachers union member on tv after the results were final? That's a head case.

June 7, 2012 at 11:39 a.m.
riverman said...

If crayon boy had gone to a real school and majored in Finance rather than majoring in coloring at a Directional School on Sand Mountain, he would realize why 36% of union households voted for Walker. The problem is not with pensions per se, but the fact that politicians from both parties have given the promise of fat pensions without fully funding them. Now with baby boomers entering retirement age there is not enough revenue to meet the cost.

June 7, 2012 at 11:43 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Chattman,

He was saying that YOU think that. Not him.

June 7, 2012 at 11:43 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Nope nooga. they'll just close up shop and move to mexico like most of Ford did, and then nobody will have jobs. The lack of unionized labor is the ONLY reason the south is the new Detroit. Take a look at Detroit now and see the handy work of unions. Try and unionize VW and nobody will have jobs there.

June 7, 2012 at 11:45 a.m.
Easy123 said...

blonde,

"Amazing how Democrats on here are trying to turn this into a victory of some sort."

Amazing how Republicans on here are trying to turn this into a victory of some sort.

I bet you don't live in Wisconsin. So this has no affect on you at all. And if you think these results are indicative of the Presidential race, you are fooling yourself.

June 7, 2012 at 11:46 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Toes,

You do realize that, without unions, factory workers, mill workers, etc. would still probably be making $2 an hour, right?

June 7, 2012 at 11:48 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

This cartoon would be much more realistic if a union guy was giving the prisoner an anal exam.

June 7, 2012 at 11:51 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

That's just a myth nooga. Unions comprise a huge minority of workers in this country. Are you suggesting that the majority of people who work are only making $2.00 an hour?

June 7, 2012 at 11:54 a.m.
Easy123 said...

How can you get "the majority of people who work are only making $2.00 an hour?" out of what I said? When unions first started, they helped people get proper wages for the work they were doing. They fought for workers. Some unions are corrupt but they did a lot of good for a lot of people.

June 7, 2012 at 12:01 p.m.
riverman said...

So Easy, how much do the non-union workers at the VW plant make? Or the Nissan plant in Smyrna. Ever take an Economics course, geez you must be a Liberal Arts Major.

June 7, 2012 at 12:03 p.m.
davisss13 said...

Excellent cartoon. Walker is a nothing but union busting scumbag of the highest order. He worships the rich and does whatever the Koch brothers tell him. I have no idea how Republicans can even sleep at night.

June 7, 2012 at 12:07 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Riverman,

What does any of that have to do with unions being helpful when they first started? Geez, you must be one of those folks that can't read very well.

June 7, 2012 at 12:08 p.m.
davisss13 said...

blondebutnotdumb said... You might be right, Conservative. It really shows what they're made of. It's sickening.

Another thing, to whine about the Koch brothers is so hypocritical. I'm sure many on here can name a ton of groups and individuals who toss their money around for the left.

You GD degenerate swine have no problem with the Republican party handing this country to the rich and corporate interests on a silver platter so they can rape and loot at will with -0- consequences.

As far as I'm concerned your ilk are traitors. I have no idea how you amoral 'patriots' can even sleep at night.

June 7, 2012 at 12:12 p.m.

Excuse me! "degenerate swine"? What nonsense. As can be proven without a problem, Obama is very much in bed with the "rich" and corporate interests. You're naive.

Obama is a money grubbing, corporate kiss up. The corporatrions that suit him and back his agenda. You're embarrassing yourself.

June 7, 2012 at 12:16 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

davisssss: With respect, you're totally FOS.

June 7, 2012 at 12:17 p.m.

Here's how it is, Davis. You, a lefist, don't mind corporations and the rich, as long as they support your guy, Obama.

Gosh, I haven't been on this forum for so long and I find out I'm a "degenerate swine" now.

June 7, 2012 at 12:20 p.m.

How much time has Obama spent over the last 3 and half years trying to squeeze money out of corporations and the rich? More time than he has spent working, that's for sure. You simply don't have a leg to stand on.

Obama is totaly owned by the "the rich" and certain corporations.

June 7, 2012 at 12:28 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Blondbut: He's a very open minded liberal. HAHAHAHA

June 7, 2012 at 12:29 p.m.
mymy said...

I was right that I would be LOL at the stupidy of the left today.

June 7, 2012 at 12:38 p.m.
degage said...

Riverman, easy is still in college under the influence of his profs. More than likely hasn't had a job. I have worked in union plants and non union plants and had just as good benifits under non union employers because of the laws on the books. We have a number of students commenting here, They think they know better than a person living in the real world. When they enter the work force they will get a rude awakening.

June 7, 2012 at 12:42 p.m.
mymy said...

degage: Bet the young and dumb students with no real life experience that are out of school today have a different view.

They will not vote or vote against their 2008 God of hope and change!

June 7, 2012 at 12:54 p.m.
timbo said...

WHY SHOULD WE BE ANGRY? WE WON....

June 7, 2012 at 1:08 p.m.
mymy said...

Right, Timbo! I'm happy as can be. There is a little light showing at the end of the tunnel. Very long and hard times to come to get the country turned around.

June 7, 2012 at 1:12 p.m.

I think Walkers victory, TWICE, is just the beginning of a very long road to making government accountable to the people. My gosh the venom spewing from the left at Walker is astounding. Did you read about all the calls for assassination? Spoiled babies! It is kind of fun to see them reveal themselves.

June 7, 2012 at 1:23 p.m.
degage said...

The threats mean the liberal dems are self destructing. They have instilled such hatred in their folowers that they are now out of control. Pray for Walkers safety.

June 7, 2012 at 1:41 p.m.
timbo said...

A little about collective bargaining:

"The NLRA establishes procedures for the selection of a labor organization to represent a unit of employees in collective bargaining. The act prohibits employers from interfering with this selection. The NLRA requires the employer to bargain with the appointed representative of its employees. It does not require either side to agree to a proposal or make concessions but does establish procedural guidelines on good faith bargaining." (from the Legal Information Institute)

Do you get that? We employer might have to bargain but we don't have to make a deal. We could move our company, close it down, lock the doors, etc., etc.

That is tactic that needs to be used to finally put a stake through these outdated unions. I will quote Nancy Reagon commenting on drug abuse..."JUST SAY NO" to unions.

June 7, 2012 at 1:53 p.m.
mymy said...

A similar situation was getting ready to proceed in Michigan. After the Wis. voting, they changed their minds. Unions/Demos have destroyed that state.

June 7, 2012 at 2:46 p.m.
chatt_man said...

blondebutsmarterthanthedemsgivecredit,

Try to look over davisss13... although he doesn't deserve it. His comments on here reflect his total lack of comprehension.

Besides, the "degenerate swine" of the day award has already been awarded to Eric Holder, as he lies to congress at least a third time.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/07/holder-ducks-questions-on-who-highest-ranking-official-with-fast-and-furious-knowledge-was/

June 7, 2012 at 2:47 p.m.
mymy said...

As the left refers to it "Faux News" has the best coverage today re the Big O's best bud Eric Holder. Actually, the best coverage to find out what is really going on.

June 7, 2012 at 3:11 p.m.
moonpie said...

I realize there are differences; however, the government does (for competetive purposes) at times apply anti-trust laws to monopolies.

I'm not sure how this really is different to me.

I do think collective bargaining is a benefit, too.

There needs to be a balance between the two.

If this crossed the line, I guess Wisconson citizens had every right to try to recall him. It seems it would have been a lot less expensive to just win the next election, rather than try to win two.

June 7, 2012 at 3:32 p.m.
Winner said...

You're all a bunch of idiots.

The lib's are only worried about campaign spending when it's not Obama that is benefiting.

The righties are all for small government until 2 guys try to get married. Once that happens they want the government to tell us all who we can and can't marry.

This Country is a shell of it's former self, and the only people to blame are the partisan idiots who refuse to have a true conversation about issues.

June 7, 2012 at 3:40 p.m.
Winner said...

Also, it's a political cartoon. The whole point is to be biased.

June 7, 2012 at 3:42 p.m.
BobMKE said...

This nails it.

"A Letter of Thanks To The Left"

http://www.620wtmj.com/blogs/charliesykes/157812315.html

June 7, 2012 at 3:43 p.m.
dao1980 said...

Partisan idiots indeed. I couldn't agree with you more, Winner.

June 7, 2012 at 3:43 p.m.
BobMKE said...

What we have learned in 2,065 years..... Evidently nothing.

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome becomes bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero 55 BC

June 7, 2012 at 3:55 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

BobMKE 3:43 five stahs for the link above.

June 7, 2012 at 4:33 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Time Magazine (not exactly a right wing standard bearer) says Dems now believe the BHO can lose.

June 7, 2012 at 4:47 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Minutes of the meeting on January 11, 1996, of the New Party’s Chicago chapter read as follows: Barack Obama, candidate for State Senate in the 13th Legislative District, gave a statement to the membership and answered questions. He signed the New Party “Candidate Contract” and requested an endorsement from the New Party. He also joined the New Party.

.....HMMMMMMMMMMM........

June 7, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Toes: I'm sure NBC and CBS will be all over this story! Not.

June 7, 2012 at 5:14 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Could you imagine the outrage of PMSNBC if this story was tied to Romney?!

June 7, 2012 at 5:24 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Degage,

In response to: "easy is still in college under the influence of his profs. More than likely hasn't had a job. I have worked in union plants and non union plants and had just as good benifits under non union employers because of the laws on the books. We have a number of students commenting here, They think they know better than a person living in the real world. When they enter the work force they will get a rude awakening."

Under the influence of my professors? Are you one of those Santorum "college indoctrinates the youth" sympathizers? I can think for myself and I have had several jobs. And I never said I knew better than anyone. I know how helpful unions were when they first started. And why do you think you know anything? Because you were in a union and non-union? What about people that work in factories, boilermakers, mill workers that need to join unions just to get employment? My father was in a union his whole life and has good and bad things to say about them. But he is quick to point out how helpful they are in getting workers their proper wages to the backbreaking work they do. And by the way, I do live in the "real world". You are showing your age DEGAGE. I know all about the workforce and how your "real world" works.

Mymy,

In response to:

"Bet the young and dumb students with no real life experience that are out of school today have a different view. They will not vote or vote against their 2008 God of hope and change!"

You are showing your age as well. Maybe you were a young and dumb student but I assure you that I am not. And I have had plenty of life experiences and I have been out of school with a job. I didn't vote for Obama in 2008. But I will in 2012. I've done the research. And he's the best man for the job. I agree with his policies and thinking. And the Republicans hatred of Obama only makes me want to vote for him more. Republicans are warmongering, Bible thumping, backward, anti-gay, anti-women's rights, anti-minority, pro-ultra wealthy, and the list goes on.

I'm voting for the person I agree with most. And it isn't your Mormon friend, Willard Mitt Romney.

June 7, 2012 at 5:45 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Easy123 Continues to splash his ignorance all over this board.

June 7, 2012 at 5:48 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Please provide some evidence for the jury. :)

June 7, 2012 at 5:49 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

I thinks Easy smokes crack before, during and after posting ridiculous comments. But democrats are so inclusive: "Republicans are warmongering, Bible thumping, backward, anti-gay, anti-women's rights, anti-minority, pro-ultra wealthy, and the list goes on". Complete hypocrite! LMFAO!!! It's a good thing there's no hate in Easy's heart!

June 7, 2012 at 6:03 p.m.
Easy123 said...

What hate? Show me the hypocrisy.

I can back all of those adjective up with facts as well if you would like.

Do you have to ask the doctor before you can access the internet at the psychiatric hospital or is it accessible to all?

June 7, 2012 at 6:10 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Let's see. Kennedy got us in Viet Nam (warmonger)...Obama courts billionaire Soros and the Wall street crowd (ultra-wealthy)....The late senator Robert Byrd was a card carrying member of the KKK (anti-minority).....Obama white house pays the women that work there 18% lower than the men(anti-womens's rights)....the list goes on and on....

I'm sure that with a couple clicks of the mouse I could find more evidence of your hypocrisy. But I must go to work now, millions of public union employees and welfare people depend on us.

June 7, 2012 at 6:23 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

I love what Scott Walker has done for Wisconsin. Gave heavily to his campaign.

Suck it libs!

June 7, 2012 at 6:38 p.m.
rick1 said...

TOES, I think you may enjoy this link. It is the 60 hard truths about liberals

http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Politics/Articles/Liberals.htm

June 7, 2012 at 6:46 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

So now it turns out that Obama was/is a card carrying member off a socialist party?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-new-documents-show-obama-was-a-member-of-the-far-left-new-party/

How inconvenient!

June 7, 2012 at 6:48 p.m.
Easy123 said...
June 7, 2012 at 6:49 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Rick1,

Thanks for that link. Now I know where you Republicans get all your ideas!

Check this insanity out!

http://famguardian.org/

June 7, 2012 at 7:02 p.m.
mymy said...

There is no hope for this bunch. The Dems are turning on O and Clinton is getting sweet revenge. It is getting funnier everyday to watch. The Bomb is blowing himself up.

June 7, 2012 at 8:24 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

self-droned

June 7, 2012 at 8:43 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "Frankie Roosevelt completely abolished bargaining rights for federal workers."

That is a complete falsehood.

In September of 1937, President Roosevelt was invited to a meeting of the National Federation of Federal Employees to discuss the possibility of establishing collective bargaining for the wages of Federal employees.

He held a press conference and publicly stated that collective bargaining for Federal employees, regarding wages, was not possible, nor did he have the power to authorize such collective bargaining for wages, due to the fact that wages for Federal employees was set by Congress, established by law in 1913.

Thus, no Federal employee in this nation had collective bargaining rights that President Roosevelt would have had opportunity to abolish.

Your tall tale is making its way around the conservative blogoshpere, looking like it was started by none other than Glenn Beck. It's pure bunk.

Here...go to the source for the truth.

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/aboutfdr/pdfs/union_pressconf.pdf

June 7, 2012 at 10:39 p.m.
alprova said...

chatt_man wrote: "Your statements act as if we are guaranteed a job, owed a job, or entitled to a job, and it always has to pay the same, or more, and the businesses are there only to give us a job. The fact is we are not."

I never implied any such a thing. However, back when things were humming along well in this nation, employers returned a sentiment of loyalty to those who were loyal to them.

That is no longer the case. Right now in this area, very few people are in a position where they are not expendable.

"And, before you say I've never been out of a job, I have, and my wife is now. We cashed out the equity in our house two years ago to survive."

I've most definitely been let go from a job, and one that I was performing well. I've posted about it in the past.

"That's what liberals don't seem to understand. We have to conduct ourselves appropriately, make an effort, and show an employer we are worth hiring."

What you don't understand is that you are one of thousands of equally qualified people worth hiring. Nobody's job is safe in this economic climate. And trust me, employers are ecstatic to have the ability to choose from a large pool of people at their disposal these days.

"Employers need good employees. They need them to run their businesses. Not all positions can be filled by monkeys."

The two employers I was referring to in the Chattanooga area, hire monkeys all the time. Skilled and long-time employees are displaced on a regular cycle. Don't ask me why they do it, but they do. My wife works for one of them today and she is sweating bullets, for she is nearing the magical five year mark, when people are let go on a regular basis.

"If you work for a company that treats you like crap, you have the opportunity (in these United states, until the liberals have the government running everything) to get a better job with another company. (as long as regulations aren't so strapping that the businesses go away)"

That doesn't deserve a response, for it is pure myth. The Gov't is not attempting in any manner to run private businesses nor is it strapping anyone with unnecessary regulations either.

"If we continue to beat up the businesses (that need good workers, make yourself a good worker), then the government has to step in and take over that needed service or product."

Examples?

"If that continues, eventually the government owns everything. And we all know, or most of us, how that turns out."

Name one formerly private enterprise that the Gov't now owns and operates. And don't even bring up GM. GM is still a private enterprise and has been since day one.

June 7, 2012 at 11 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "Try and unionize VW and nobody will have jobs there."

Unionization is likely to fail. Top pay at VW is already about a quarter per hour higher than union jobs at unionized auto plants.

However, VW officials have stated several times that if the workers do choose representation, that the company will absolutely engage in negotiations with the UAW.

June 7, 2012 at 11:16 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

rick1, I read all 60 "hard truths" about liberals. What a load of C-R-A-P. Sounds like any one of the frequent posters on here - you, con-man, joneses, tu_cock, or timbo - could have compiled that list. If none of you actually wrote it, you've probably all committed it to memory. You guys have so much unjustified hate in your hearts and cartoonish stereotypes of liberals filling up your minds that it's no wonder we can't have any honest dialogue. You guys are pathetic. Enjoy your hate. It seems to be all you've got.

June 7, 2012 at 11:32 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservatives/Tea Partiers/Republicans loooovvvve to lament the ills surrounding the myths that big Government is evil, too powerful, and is currently engaged in depriving people of their freedom or money..in its quest to help the elderly, the disabled, the unemployed, the uninsured, etc...you know, the people with real problems and immediate needs.

The issue of reducing the size and/or the reach of Government makes sense to them until the subjects of abortion, religion, marriage or perceptions of inequality in taxation are raised.

When it comes to those issues, the arm of the Government cannot be extended too far. They seek to use the power of Government to preside and to prevent others from violating rules that they set for themselves. Little or no thought is given to any Constitutional violations that may be a part of their attempts to pass laws that are meant to restrict freedom or any choices in life to pursuit personal happiness that are contrary to their own.

Regarding all but one of the core issues that they hold near and dear, if they were to simply mind their own business, there would be nothing to contest, thus reducing the amount of bile that they deal with on a daily basis.

Until that day ever comes, Tums and Rolaids are going to continue to sell well.

June 8, 2012 at 12:59 a.m.
fairmon said...

Buyer beware

June 8, 2012 at 5:08 a.m.
MTJohn said...

TOES02800 said..."Let's see. Kennedy got us in Viet Nam (warmonger)..."

Check your history books. The credit for getting us into Viet Nam should probably be shared by Truman and Eisenhower and a whole lot of folks who were afraid of Joe McCarthy.

June 8, 2012 at 6:47 a.m.
MTJohn said...

rick1 said..."TOES, I think you may enjoy this link. It is the 60 hard truths about liberals"

It never ceases to amaze me the frequency with which folks who profess to be Christian, who thump on their Bibles and who preach the virtues of the 10 commandments consistently bear false witness against their neighbors.

June 8, 2012 at 6:50 a.m.
conservative said...

So where is the lie in "rick1 said..."TOES, I think you may enjoy this link. It is the 60 hard truths about liberals"

June 8, 2012 at 8:17 a.m.
alprova said...

"I think you may enjoy this link. It is the 60 hard truths about liberals"

In reading that made-up opinionated crap, it occurred to me that the list could and should have been condensed into about 10 easy lies. The writer repeats himself over and over -- just wording his lies another way.

Generalizations, labels, and painting people with the same broad brush, who have values, beliefs, and opinions that differ with their own, is ridiculous, totally unfair, and most of all, dishonest to an extreme.

Seems to me that the person who wrote those declarations is in dire need of cracking open his closely held Bible and studying it a little more, to discover the truth to all that Jesus Christ stood for and all that he did when he was alive.

Que Andrew Lohr, who will most assuredly post and declare that Jesus was a Libertarian.

June 8, 2012 at 8:36 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - did you check the link? If so, please validate the list.

June 8, 2012 at 8:36 a.m.
conservative said...

No, you made the charge of lying so you reveal the lies.

June 8, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

alprova: "In reading that made-up opinionated crap, it occurred to me that the list could and should have been condensed into about 10 easy lies. The writer repeats himself over and over -- just wording his lies another way.

Generalizations, labels, and painting people with the same broad brush, who have values, beliefs, and opinions that differ with their own, is ridiculous, totally unfair, and most of all, dishonest to an extreme."

Seems to me, this more or less sums up the Leftists (on this board) point of view. Glass houses and so forth.

June 8, 2012 at 9:57 a.m.
shifarobe said...

ITS OVER MAN!! BO is stinking up the joint! He doesn't have time to do all kinds of stuff that could help his party, but he has time to meet with 25 young up and coming actors to discuss politics??????? HIS HEAD IS UP HIS SCRAWNY @SS. Look at all the Dems on here desperate to discredit Scott Walker! HE WON BIG TIME! HE WON TWICE!

June 8, 2012 at 10:16 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTjohn, 6:47

What history books are you reading, pal? Amazin....

June 8, 2012 at 10:17 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/primary-sources/president-roosevelt-against-collective-bargaining-public-sector

Here's a direct letter from Frankie himself alprova. So yeah, he was against collective bargaining. He never had to abolish it. Not much difference though, my bad.

June 8, 2012 at 10:40 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

BIDEN: "(shouting) Imagine a world in which hunger is vanquished by crops that don't depend on the soil or water or fertilizer or pesticides to thrive! They're just around the corner. Imagine famine being a memory -- and with it, the end of so much war and conflict that plagues so much parts of the world! Imagine a day when the lightweight materials, cleaner fuels, [and] advanced engines simultaneously make our air cleaner -- allowing us to go the equivalent of hundreds of miles to the gallon. And maybe, most importantly, freeing us from our dependence on foreign oil and all that entails for a nation."

Here's your vice president in action! LMFAO!! We all should pray that Obama stays healthy until November! What a crackpot!!

June 8, 2012 at 10:58 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Nooga: It's not so bad. Most are bearable. Most aren't as sophomoric and childish as your retorts.

June 8, 2012 at 11:02 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

HAHAHA!!!! They can't even create a damn job and they're going to end famine!! End all wars!! HAHAHA!! How about just get the f#%k out of the way of the private sector ass hole!! Such grandiose ambitions for an administration that can't even keep their own country afloat!!

Will Obama do all of this while playing the back nine at Sawgrass?

He does, after all, have more time on his hands now that his wife won't go all the way down!!

June 8, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/06/08/liberals-threaten-not-to-vote-in-november-over-disappointment-with-obama/

While I'm at it! Here, read this you happy, dedicated Obama liberals!! My how the messiah has fallen!!

By the way, taxing the rich would be like cashing in a bag of soda cans to pay for nooga's ocean liner!

June 8, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.
moonpie said...

I confess I did not read all the 60 truths about liberals, but all the ones I did read were opnions and interpretations.

I did not read one statement out of 20-30 that I perused that accurately reflected the opinion of any liberal I know. (Perhaps there are extremists out there.) And I know a lot of liberals.

Maybe I'm not liberal at all, or maybe the author wants to demonize people to the left of him/her.

Basically, this list says that liberals "hate" American values.

That seems to be about in line with this forum. Both "sides" accusing the other of hatred and not seeing it in themselves.

I'm not saying I'm above it, but I do recognize it.

June 8, 2012 at 11:48 a.m.
conservative said...

The first sentence in truth number 1 reads "At the most basic level, the Liberal is anti-God."

Now, that is absolutely true! Lieberals are atheists.

Atheists are not just those who publically proclaim there is no God but includes those who LIVE as though there is no God. They LIVE in rebellion to the will of God as revealed in scripture

June 8, 2012 at 11:54 a.m.
adolphochs said...

The hit dog hollers and man, has he been hollerin'!

June 8, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

How can that be possible if we don't believe in God? God can't have a will if there is no god. And how can you live in rebellion of something that you don't believe is real. Are you living in rebellion of Allah's will?

And you are wrong again. All liberals aren't atheists. Actually, a lot of liberals aren't atheists. But believe whatever lies you want.

June 8, 2012 at noon
conservative said...

Well you can say you don't believe in speeding laws. Now be in "rebellion" and run 100mph on I24. You will soon believe.

Just because you don't believe in reality doesn't negate reality.

June 8, 2012 at 12:33 p.m.
degage said...

nooga you are a soros sucker.

June 8, 2012 at 12:37 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

Saying you don't believe in speeding laws while living in the U.S. is psychotic. However, some places don't have speeding laws. And I assure you, I will not soon believe, Mr. Cleric.

Show me this reality you speak of. Prove that your god exists and I'll believe.

June 8, 2012 at 12:42 p.m.

"the private sector is doing fine"

That's the latest from Obama.

That's his version of empathy.

June 8, 2012 at 12:48 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

blonde: That statement says a lot about him.

June 8, 2012 at 1:04 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

If I had just had lunch with Sarah Jessica Parker, I too would say the private sector is doing fine.

June 8, 2012 at 1:20 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Remember this quote from Obama? "Sometimes I forget the magnitude of the recession".

Again, Can he be more out of touch?

June 8, 2012 at 1:32 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Can you fathom the magnitude of this recession? I doubt it. And Obama has access to a lot more information than you. Maybe YOU are out of touch.

That quote does suggest that the president is out of touch.

June 8, 2012 at 1:38 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Yeah. He has access to a LOT more information than I do. And he STILL forgets the magnitude of the recession.

June 8, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Have you ever had a memory lapse about something you knew very well? I bet you have.

Obama is human. That is all this quote tells me.

June 8, 2012 at 1:45 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

After Wisconsin, the Obama administration looks like a house of cards.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577452793597495290.html

June 8, 2012 at 1:46 p.m.
moonpie said...

Conservative,

I know many atheist conservatives. I know many liberal Christians.

Your brush is too broad and thus lacks accuracy and precision.

Same with the list.

June 8, 2012 at 1:48 p.m.
Easy123 said...

BRP,

PEGGY NOONAN? Seriously? You should have just gotten an article written by G.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan or G. H.W. Bush.

June 8, 2012 at 1:52 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

That is absolutely incredible. That might be funny if weren't so incredibly ludicrous.

June 8, 2012 at 1:52 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Right on Easy! We all know the REAL truth lives at the Huffington Post! Your "go-to" source for everything.

June 8, 2012 at 1:55 p.m.
Easy123 said...

I never said the real truth lives there but it's closer to the truth than a Peggy Noonan article or Fox News. And I use many other sources. I'd say Wikipedia is my go-to source.

June 8, 2012 at 2 p.m.

Yes it does, Jack. Those who work for the federal government are doing pretty darn well. Obama sickens me more and more. He's just there to have a good time and rub elbows with athletes and celebrities. His days are numbered.

June 8, 2012 at 2:07 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

What a great example of how shell shocked and disconnected the Democrats are sounding these days...

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/07/clips-from-last-night-piers-morgan-challenges-debbie-wasserman-schultz-buzzfeed-duo-weighs-in-on-wisconsin/

Even Piers Morgan can recognize when he is listening to crazy misrepresentation of reality and silly name calling.

June 8, 2012 at 2:11 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Blonde,

You are so correct. About 1,600 more days!

June 8, 2012 at 2:11 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrotew: **"Here's a direct letter from Frankie himself alprova. So yeah, he was against collective bargaining. He never had to abolish it. Not much difference though, my bad.

He wasn't against collective bargaining. He in fact had widespread support from all kinds of unions because he in fact endorsed union representation.

His hands were tied when it came to Federal employees though. And that was what he attempted to explain to the union management of the Federation of Federal Workers in those series of letters.

June 8, 2012 at 2:18 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "The first sentence in truth number 1 reads "At the most basic level, the Liberal is anti-God.""

"Now, that is absolutely true! Lieberals are atheists."

That is not true at all. Now if the sentence were worded, "All atheists are Liberals, then you might be getting a little closer to the truth. But it is patently false to even suggest that all liberals are Athiests.

"Atheists are not just those who publically proclaim there is no God but includes those who LIVE as though there is no God. They LIVE in rebellion to the will of God as revealed in scripture"

And? What's your point? People are free to reject anything and everything contained in the Bible. People are free to reject God. What business is it of yours if they do?

June 8, 2012 at 2:25 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack_Dennis said..."MTjohn, 6:47

What history books are you reading, pal? Amazin...."

Jack - I served in Vietnam and I have a pretty good understanding of the events that preceded our engagement in that war. Both Truman and Eisenhower had opportunities to chart a different course for our country in SE Asia. We also had boots on the ground prior to 1960. By the way, what's on your DD214?

June 8, 2012 at 2:40 p.m.
conservative said...

Moonpie...

Jesus said in John 8:31 " If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples"

True Christians abide in God's word, true Lieberals don't.

True Christians study God's word to know his will. I don't know any Lieberals who study God's word and obey God's word. Not one. Every Lieberal I have ever met denies the sinfulness and judgment of homosexuality, denies the creation story of the Bible, denies the inerrancy of Scripture, denies belief in Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation to name just a few.

You may think Lieberals are Christians, Lieberals may think they are Christians but they are not.

They don't abide ( obey, trust, rely ) in God's word.

June 8, 2012 at 2:42 p.m.
MTJohn said...

conservative said..."The first sentence in truth number 1 reads "At the most basic level, the Liberal is anti-God."

Now, that is absolutely true! Lieberals are atheists.

Atheists are not just those who publically proclaim there is no God but includes those who LIVE as though there is no God. They LIVE in rebellion to the will of God as revealed in scripture"

As I said, thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor!

I am liberal. I am Christian and have been all my life. You will find me in the pew just about every Sunday morning and engaged in at least one church-sponsored activity per week in addition to Sunday worship. And, if you were to inspect my check book, you would note that I regularly provide financial support to organizations that are engaged in activities that live out Jesus' command to love our neighbors as ourselves. And, by the way, I know lots of folks who could honestly share a comparable life story.

June 8, 2012 at 2:46 p.m.
mymy said...

The left is coming unglued. O sounds like he is still "smoking" pot and has brain damage from long term use. Poor Joe, is just a wacko and so are those that elected him all there years.

Today's Press Conference was an obvious staged event. If it had been a Republican with the job/economy, leaking of national securiety info from the WH no less, Fast and Furious, he would have been eat alive by the press. 3 stupid set-up questions and O came off in a bad light, AGAIG!

Time is running out for O-dazzle. His chicken's are coming home to roost.

June 8, 2012 at 2:47 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative:

Each and every person has sinned and fallen short of the God. Each of us lives under God's judgement. Homosexuals are not unique in that regard. Fortunately, God relates with humanity on the basis of His love - we all live with the promise of salvation in Christ, even though some of us choose to ignore that promise.

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I believe that Scripture is the inspired Word of God, the revelation of God's plan of salvation for all of humanity and for all of His creation in the person of Jesus Christ.

June 8, 2012 at 2:51 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative,

You have totally lost touch with reality.

June 8, 2012 at 3:08 p.m.
jesse said...

july 26,1950. truman gives 15 million in military aid to help france fighr the viet minh! sept.27,1950,maag estb.in siagon to aid the french! jan.1955.direct mil.aid to saigon! july 1959, first two american troops killed in s.viet nam!

June 8, 2012 at 3:52 p.m.
moonpie said...

MTJohn,

I wish all people who claim to be Christain had at least 1/10th of your humility, grace, compassion and certitude. Your calmness speaks more than the loudest proclamations.

June 8, 2012 at 4:12 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTJohn: I supported the troops in VietNam then, and still do. Not sure how you can lay VietNam on Truman and Eisenhower....Neither ratcheted up involvement there. Neither cooked up the utterly transparent Gulf of Tonkin "attack"....Also what may or not be on my DD-214 has zero to do with this discussion. Peace.

June 8, 2012 at 4:14 p.m.
conservative said...

MtJohn...

You must think I have a short memory. In previous discussions you denied that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God, a direct contradiction of Scripture. On or about "earth day" you also denied the Biblical account of creation. I am quite sure that you have other Lieberal non-Christian, un-Scriptural beliefs. True Christians abide in the word of God (see 2:42 comment) and are therefore Conservative in their beliefs, not willing to change (become Lieberal) to get along with the non-believing lost world.

You wrote". Each of us lives under God's judgement. Homosexuals are not unique in that regard."

That is an egregious denial of Scripture : "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24. True Conservative Christians have eternal life now!!!! "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" Romans 8:1. No my friend, true (Conservative) Christians are NOT under God's judgment. That is an awful lie!

I fear for you.

June 8, 2012 at 4:26 p.m.
fairmon said...

ALPO SAID...

VW officials have stated several times that if the workers do choose representation, that the company will absolutely engage in negotiations with the UAW.

Of course they would, bargaining in good faith (meeting routinely, discussing issues etc.) is required. Agreeing to anything is not required of either party. Many unions have evolved from their initial purpose to being similar to the ineffective governments with their over paid hierarchies.

June 8, 2012 at 4:39 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative thinks he's a prophet or possibly a cleric.

June 8, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.
conservative said...

Alprova wrote..."But it is patently false to even suggest that all liberals are Athiests."

You seem to believe that an atheist just pertains to one who proclaims that there is no God. Not true. Many are too cowardly too openly deny the existence of the one and only true God, but they live as though God does not exist. If you knew Scripture you would know this is true.

I wrote :"Atheists are not just those who publically proclaim there is no God but includes those who LIVE as though there is no God. They LIVE in rebellion to the will of God as revealed in scripture"

and you responded : "And? What's your point? "

Now if there is one thing I have not been accused of it is vagueness. I was plain (as always) and redundant and you wrote "What's your point?"

June 8, 2012 at 5:20 p.m.

Almost 200 posts, and look at how far the topic has wandered.

June 8, 2012 at 5:39 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Let's stipulate that all liberals are not atheists.

June 8, 2012 at 5:55 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "I fear for you."

You truly need to worry strictly about your own soul. You are nothing more than another installment of taking scripture completely out of context and lobbing it like you would missiles.

There are a bunch of so called, "true conservative Christians" that are going to bust Hell wide open.

June 8, 2012 at 5:57 p.m.
mymy said...

Hours after President Obama declared the private sector was "doing fine" — which he later backed away from after receiving criticism — one of the nation's major credit rating agencies affirmed it was not.

June 8, 2012 at 6:08 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - you only quoted half of what I said. The wages of sin is death. We are all sinners and we all have earned that paycheck. But, thanks be to God who gives us the victory in our Lord Jesus Christ. Just as you said, Jesus is the only way to salvation. We "claim" that salvation by faith, not by good works, and the promise is fulfilled in all who believe. That's the way that it works for you. That's the way that it works for me. That's the way that it works for each person, irrespective of the way that sin manifests itself in our lives.

Regarding creation, I stated my belief and I did so in the words of the first article of the Apostle's Creed. The Creed has been the Christian confession since the early days of the church. I also happen to believe that it is inappropriate to use science to deny the reality of the divine Creator. And, by the same logic, I believe that God gave us the Scriptures to reveal to us His love - not to give us a primer in science. That, by the way, would have been the gist of what I posted about the creation/evolution debate back on earth day.

And, as a footnote, let me remind you that there are several creation accounts in Scripture, not just the two that occur in Genesis 1 and 2 which, if read literally, are in apparent contradiction. The account which speaks most clearly to me occurs at the beginning of John's Gospel. I DO NOT disagree with the Biblical account of creation - I disagree with Bishop Usher's interpretation of the Biblical account of creation.

June 8, 2012 at 6:16 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack - Vietnam was never a declared war. Yes, we just commemorated the 50th anniversary of the war - which would make its beginning in 1962. But, even in the commemoration, it was acknowledge that the assignment of the date was arbitrary. Yes, our involvement in Vietnam escalated under Kennedy, Johnson and the early years of Nixon. But, Kennedy could not have escalated the "engagement" unless someone prior to him had initiated it. And, by the way, we all share the blame for that mess because we were too dumb and/or too scared to look for a more constructive way to help the Vietnamese resolve their own civil war.

June 8, 2012 at 6:22 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTJohn: d'accord

June 8, 2012 at 6:28 p.m.
conservative said...

Alprova wrote....

"You truly need to worry strictly about your own soul. You are nothing more than another installment of taking scripture completely out of context and lobbing it like you would missiles"

Well now, that is quite a strong statement, even judgmental. I thought Lieberals were not suppose to be judgmental. But you didn't prove just accuse.

I used two verses at 4:26. You say I misused those verses. Go ahead prove that I misused Scripture. Teach us the word of God and don't wait till midnight, we are eager to hear your wisdom.

June 8, 2012 at 6:43 p.m.
conservative said...

MtJohn....

You wrote...."Each and every person has sinned and fallen short of the God. Each of us lives under God's judgement. Homosexuals are not unique in that regard."

Omitting that first sentence changes nothing about the fact that Christians do not live under God's judgment : "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

In a prior discussion you contended that a practicing homosexual would enter the Kingdom of God. Are you now acknowledging that they will spend eternity in hell? Yes, or No?

On or about earth day many on this site were espousing evolution. I don't recall your exact words on evolution but you did write "Christians insist that the world was created in six days and that humans have the right to and today do desecrate God's handiwork"

Well yes, Christians do insist that the world was created in six days ( by God). Notice you excluded yourself from that belief of Christians. Are you now acknowledging that God not evolution created heaven and earth in six days? Yes, or No?

You state "I DO NOT disagree with the Biblical account of creation...." and what is that?

June 8, 2012 at 7:22 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Well yes, Christians do insist that the world was created in six days ( by God). Notice you excluded yourself from that belief of Christians. Are you now acknowledging that God not evolution created heaven and earth in six days? Yes, or No?

Only fundy Christians insist that the world was created in six days. Do you count yourself as one of these? BTW evolution does not address the creation of the world.

June 8, 2012 at 7:51 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - the sentence that you missed was this one, "Fortunately, God relates with humanity on the basis of His love - we all live with the promise of salvation in Christ, even though some of us choose to ignore that promise."

"God shows His love for us in this. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved." "For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God,not of works, lest any man should boast." If those promises don't work for the homosexual, they don't work for you, either.

Scripture clearly reveals God as Creator. Evolution did not "create" heaven and earth. Evolution is an attribute of the creation, one way of understanding the mystery of God's handiwork, AFTER the event of creation.

June 8, 2012 at 8:02 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "Well now, that is quite a strong statement, even judgmental. I thought Lieberals were not suppose to be judgmental. But you didn't prove just accuse."

You have the audacity to call me judgmental after your repeated statements that certain people are destined for Hell? I'm sure that you do not begin to see the irony.

"I used two verses at 4:26. You say I misused those verses."

No. I stated that you are taking those verses out of context.

"Go ahead prove that I misused Scripture. Teach us the word of God and don't wait till midnight, we are eager to hear your wisdom."

No thank you. Unlike yourself, I do not and never will claim to be able to speak for God. And given that the entire Bible has been penned and repeatedly amended by humans just like yourself, I don't think you can speak for God either.

June 8, 2012 at 8:33 p.m.
conservative said...

Alprova...

I don't mind you calling me judgmental. It is most often the recourse of Lieberals when faced with the word of God. I noticed that you didn't deny that you were judgmental. It is the word of God that judges you, I have no power or authority to judge you, but I do have the command of Jesus to preach the Gospel which carries the penalty of judgment for those who reject it.

You wrote..."No. I stated that you are taking those verses out of context." Taking verses out of context IS misusing Scripture and you of course could not demonstrate that I did that.

You wrote.... "Unlike yourself, I do not and never will claim to be able to speak for God."

Every Christian is entitled and commanded to share God's word with lost souls : "For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?" Romans 10:13-14.

However it is true that the lost will never speak for God.

June 8, 2012 at 9:06 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn...

You have resorted to strawmen instead of agreeing with the word of God. According to the word of God, will a practicing homosexual inherit the Kingdom of God? Yes or No?

Your strawman statement "If those promises don't work for the homosexual, they don't work for you, either." after citing Scripture dealing with Salvation, imply that I would differ with those verses. Your refusal to answer the question of whether or not a practicing homosexual will inherit the kingdom of God or will spend eternity in hell is a refusal on your part to agree with the word of God.

Your statements about creation seem slippery to me. Did God create man on the sixth day of the creation account in Genesis or not? Yes or No? Evolution denies this.

June 8, 2012 at 9:14 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Evolution says nothing about "creation" or the start of the universe. But, if you did any research, you would know that evolution is a fact. Everything evolved. Humans, in particular, evolved from a common ancestor with chimpanzees.

June 8, 2012 at 9:48 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Au contraire, Easy123. Some of you mopes never evolve.

June 8, 2012 at 10:11 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "I don't mind you calling me judgmental. It is most often the recourse of Lieberals when faced with the word of God."

Let me know when you have quoted "the word of God." That which is contained in the Bible is not the word of God. It is the word of many men, each with their own biases and opinions.

The Bible that once was, does not exist any longer, and that has been the case since King James and the Church of England rewrote the Bible.

"I noticed that you didn't deny that you were judgmental."

I don't judge others. I will however point out misinformation whenever it raises its ugly head. You throwing out a bunch of Biblical scripture in no manner impresses me nor does it make me squirm.

"It is the word of God that judges you, I have no power or authority to judge you, but I do have the command of Jesus to preach the Gospel which carries the penalty of judgment for those who reject it."

You are free to believe whatever you wish. That in no manner translates into one word of it being true or relevant to me or anyone else.

Personally, in my opinion, your estimation of your "command" to do anything in regard to condemning others to a thing is meaningless.

You tend to your own soul and I'll tend to mine.

"Every Christian is entitled and commanded to share God's word with lost souls : "For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?" Romans 10:13-14."

Your first mistake is in considering me a "lost soul." I am in no need of saving from a thing. Now buzz off.

"However it is true that the lost will never speak for God."

Pardon me, but you go to Hell you brainwashed, pompous jerk.

June 8, 2012 at 10:15 p.m.
Easy123 said...

JackDennis,

Do you ever say anything thoughtful or intelligent? Or is it just clumsy attempts at humor and wit?

June 8, 2012 at 11:03 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

I leave the intellectualism to you. Bwahahahaha

June 8, 2012 at 11:19 p.m.
Easy123 said...

I guess it's option #2. Thank you for settling that debate.

June 8, 2012 at 11:25 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - it is obvious that you and I have different understandings regarding the tenets of Christianity. However, it would be incorrect to conclude that one of us is, therefore, an atheist. It would be be incorrect to conclude that one of us is not Christian.

I will stand on the assertion I made which triggered this exchange. The "60 hard truths" that rick1 referenced is an example of a Christian bearing false witness against his neighbor, even though that Christian professes to hold the 10 Commandments in high regard.

June 9, 2012 at 5:56 a.m.

Up to 200 posts, no relation to the original topic.

June 9, 2012 at 5:04 p.m.
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