published Wednesday, December 11th, 2013

HaslamCare

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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GaussianInteger said...

From April's post to me in the Grinch Cartoon:

"Sure am, If any union representative is suggesting that 10,000 people signed a petition and none acted upon their own desire for a referendum.

Unions are full of representatives and absent of leaders these days."

I am not a union representative nor am I a member of any union (and I have never been a member of a union). Soakya asked me about union representatives at VW (and no, I am not an employee of VW). And again, I never said anything about "10,000" signers being duped. I simply shared factual information from a personal experience. April, your reading comprehension needs some attention.

December 11, 2013 at 5:53 a.m.
joneses said...

The state of Tennessee would not have an issue with Medicaid if it were not for the Liar in Chiefs obamacare. Governor Haslam is doing all he can to protect Tennesseans from another failed Liar in Chiefs plan to destroy health care for everyone. Of course clay bennett like all liberals never has understood simple economics and will support the Liar In Chief, hussein obama, on anything he says regardless if they agree with it or not. I have never seen so many people mesmerized by a liar.

December 11, 2013 at 6:08 a.m.
fairmon said...

It is easy to criticize the governor but difficult to recommend a solution that works.

December 11, 2013 at 6:50 a.m.
limric said...

Single payer - Medicare for all? Without using hyperbole, why isn't it a viable alternative?

December 11, 2013 at 6:58 a.m.
librul said...

Because the hospital/pharmaceutical/insurance cartels and their loudmouth shills like Joneses dominate the debate, muddy the waters, shovel billions into the pockets of their ideological morons in the Congress and demonstrate every day that profits-over-people is still the supreme paradigm in American life. Until they are overthrown, the American people will continue to suffer needlessly at the hands of a bunch of callous, greedy, capitalist vampires. But their days are numbered.

December 11, 2013 at 7:10 a.m.
librul said...

Oh yeah - hyperbole ...

Ahem - because equity, fairness and compassion have no place at the table in any debate about 'bizness'.

December 11, 2013 at 7:34 a.m.
limric said...

Joneses,

Please explain what the "Liar in Chiefs plan to destroy health care for everyone" is.

December 11, 2013 at 7:36 a.m.
jesse said...

Hyperbole!!

December 11, 2013 at 7:46 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

Joneses, fairmon, what is the problem and why is it so hard f or you to see a viable solution? Take the medicaid/care money and join ACA. The guv is more afraid of his shadow than anything else.

And - "Liar in chief" at best borders on hyperbole, in actuality it stews down to insult with hostile intent. Perhaps it is better characterized as diatribe. Even the satire in Clay's cartoons, though often elegant, deserve a rest.

If only in the few days of this Christmas season, perhaps you can find a bit of good will in your hearts and eschew your negative behavior. It is unproductive behavior anyway. It changes no one's mind and only pushes people further into opposition.

December 11, 2013 at 8:28 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

Where the anti-single payer brainwashing comes from:

Insurance companies (while handing a wad of cash to the GOP congress), “Yes, all other modern civilized countries have universal health care. And it costs them less. But what don’t they have? Huge profits, and that’s the life blood of our Democracy.”

The GOP congress (receiving the wad of cash), “Sure universal health care is the fairest solution, but you know what? There’s no lobby spending millions helping house members that support single payer get re-elected.”

The media, (receiving a press release from the above house member) “Yes, universal health care IS the best system, but so what? Politicians aren’t for it, and we’d be labeled as biased if we reported a political non-starter as if it were a serious news item.”

US, “I doubt single payer would work for Americans.” “I think you’re right. If it really was a better alternative, then the media and politicians would talk about it all the time, right?”

Thanks Barry

December 11, 2013 at 9:38 a.m.
alprova said...

limric wrote: "Single payer - Medicare for all? Without using hyperbole, why isn't it a viable alternative?"

That may well be where we wind up, and I am one of many who hope that the Republicans and their cheerleaders are successful in their attempts to derail ObamaCare, because that's what will come down the pike if they continue their antics.

The more they push, the more likely insurance companies will be pushed aside, for they know this is their last chance.

December 11, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.
Maximus said...

Librul......equity, equity, equity, always the equity. You might as well be writing mediocrity, mediocrity, and crappy. Librul, you are asking for a single payer system run by the guvment when Barrycare is imploding in front of our very eyes. Insanity! The answer to Clays Medicaid toon is simple. Preserve Medicare for those 65 and over when you typically need healthcare the most. Medicaid should be reserved for women and children and I guess no count weak men that are either dopers, alcoholics, or like Librul, trifling silly socialist liberals that were born in the wrong country, can't compete and cant stand what fuels the innovation and remarkable success of the American healthcare system, the PROFIT MOTIVE. Librul show me a country with a single payer system that has developed or discovered a novel new drug or medical device and brought it to market in the past 20 years. Not many, if any. Eli Lilly, an American company, pioneered and developed the AIDS treatments that are allowing those patients to lead a longer, more normal life. Pfizer, discovered and developed life saving cardiovascular drugs like Lipitor. Medtronic, based in Minn., a leader in pacemakers and med devices. The list of excellent and innovative for profit American pharma and med device companies could go on and on. A single payer system in the U.S. would be a disaster both for patients and the economy.

Librul, in a concise statement, like Barry The Welfare Pimp you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about when it comes to business and especially healthcare. And Gov. Haslam has more business and leadership expertise in his big toe than Clay The Toon Boy has in his entire body.

December 11, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.
Maximus said...

Alprova...you are alive today, albeit, with one leg because of our current for profit, free market based healthcare system. Let's face it, and I know this because I own a medical supplies business and have to deal with believe it or not a handful of liberal doctors. All of theme detest the fact that healthcare is discovered, developed, and delivered in the U.S. for profit. Most of these liberal docs are in secure medical jobs in academia, on salary where they do not have to deal with the harsh real world. Take away the profit motive from our healthcare system and you will destroy the greatest, most innovative healthcare system in the world. And please libtrards don't give me any bogus World Health Organization states about how Denmarks healthcare system is superior to the US.......HOGWASH!

December 11, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.
alprova said...

joneses wrote: "The state of Tennessee would not have an issue with Medicaid if it were not for the Liar in Chiefs obamacare."

But of course, everyone applying for Medicaid in Tennessee is someone whose insurer canceled on them...is that your accusation?

"Governor Haslam is doing all he can to protect Tennesseans from another failed Liar in Chiefs plan to destroy health care for everyone."

Governore Haslam is simply falling in lockstep with all the other good little Republican Governors, doing his part to resist any and all efforts to reform a very broken health care system, because the Republicans have absolutely no answers or proposals that would do a thing to help those without access to health care insurance.

"I have never seen so many people mesmerized by a liar."

Unfortunately, it is a waste of time to attempt to discuss the issue with those who are equally and negatively obsessed with everything the same man does.

December 11, 2013 at 10:12 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

Maximus's 10:10am post In it's entirety:

BOGUS

December 11, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.
limric said...

Umm, say Mickey,

If our Democracy was broken, they’d say something too – right?

December 11, 2013 at 10:16 a.m.
gypsylady said...

Medtronic - 47.6 mil in grants and "incentives" and counting!!!! Go, go, go FREE MARKET!!!

December 11, 2013 at 10:20 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

It depends on who thinks it's broken.

Do you think it's broken Limric?

December 11, 2013 at 10:36 a.m.
Maximus said...

Gypsy....again folks lock your doors, they steal. I knew this was coming. Yes American medical companies accept NIH grants, etc. But the vast majority of medical advancements in the world come from publically traded for profit American companies. Investment, risk, and profit drives the success of the American healthcare system, not the guvment.

December 11, 2013 at 10:39 a.m.
alprova said...

"Alprova...you are alive today, albeit, with one leg because of our current for profit, free market based healthcare system."

Sir, this "current for profit, free market based health care system" has me approximately $150,000 in debt to medical providers.

"Let's face it, and I know this because I own a medical supplies business..."

Oh my...time to pull on my hip-waders. Thus the rest of what you have is easily dismissed.

December 11, 2013 at 10:41 a.m.
alprova said...

Maximus wrote: "...the vast majority of medical advancements in the world come from publically traded for profit American companies. Investment, risk, and profit drives the success of the American healthcare system, not the guvment."

France leads the world in medical research and has for quite sometime, and they do this while offering government sponsored health care to every single person who resides within their borders.

December 11, 2013 at 10:46 a.m.
gypsylady said...

And the fact that they charge Americans who help support them three times as much for prescription drugs as they charge patients in the rest of the world. 17% of GDP, just think how much that sucks out of other businesses. By the way, we gypsies may boost a couple of household items here and there, but that's nuthin compared to the loot medicare scammers are getting away with :)

December 11, 2013 at 10:48 a.m.
Maximus said...

Alprova....the uninsured message is tired. The answer, send them to the VA or public health facility for care. After that experience you will never want to be sick again.

December 11, 2013 at 10:49 a.m.
Maximus said...

Alprova your gangrene has spread to your brain. France leads the world in nothing except wine and shade trees along the streets of Paris for the German Army....an old WWII joke. Ha...Ha. And Gypsy, you should know...........a basic of business.....adjust your price to what the market will bare. Yes, drugs are cheaper in South Africa, where the average citizen under Mandella's leadership lives on $2.00 a day. In the U.S. they cost quite a bit more. Do you think products should be priced the same throughout the world? Hon its supply and demand, simple as that.

December 11, 2013 at 10:57 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

Did I just read what I thought I read?

Maximus, “After that experience you will never WANT to be sick again.”

WTF

December 11, 2013 at 11:01 a.m.
gypsylady said...

Maxifraud, sweetie pie, if you knew business half as well as you pretend, you would know that supply and demand doesn't always determine price. Drugs are also cheaper in Canada, except maybe the kind that that staunch conservative Rob Ford rams up his nose.

December 11, 2013 at 11:04 a.m.
Maximus said...

Oh yea Alprova....France is bankrupt both morally and financially. More wine sir? It will help you forget that our country has been in the trash heap of history for quite some time. Been to Paris recently. I have, it's crawling with homeless people. Usual crap in the healthcare debate trying to compare the healthcare system in a country like France with a population of a little over 65 million very snobbish and weak mostly white people with that of the U.S. over 300 million very diverse people with very diverse needs, drive, and ambition for a self reliant future. The frogs bought in to socialism long ago and they are insignificant in the world scene.

December 11, 2013 at 11:08 a.m.
Maximus said...

Canada.....has about the population of California. Most of the country is unpopulated, mostly white, mostly dopers like Ford. Like France very insignificant on the world scene. Long waits for procedures like heart by pass surgery.....you just might die while waiting. You cannot compare Canada's healthcare system to that of the U.S. Canada like France is statistically irrelevant in the U.S. healthcare debate.

Mickeyrat.....translation for you...the VA and Public Health facilities suck.

December 11, 2013 at 11:15 a.m.
jesse said...

France and Europe as a whole are pretty much the model for the end result of the road we are headed down now!If you like what you see in Europe right now just hang on ,that's where we are gonna be shortly if things don't change!!

December 11, 2013 at 11:21 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Jesse, the Left longs for us to be like Europe. Limric's, Roo's, Librul's, and Rat's wet dream.

December 11, 2013 at 11:35 a.m.
MickeyRat said...

Lame PT - lame. But quite professionally troll like.

By the way, aren’t you supposed to be on the street corner, in your sandwich board howling about Obama?

December 11, 2013 at 12:30 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Nah, Rat. too cold. You, however, could be passing out Che Lives! handbills.

December 11, 2013 at 12:59 p.m.
limric said...

To answer your question Mickey: ”Do you think it's broken Limric?” That being our democratic (characterized by free and equal participation in government or in the decision-making) form of governance.

In a word - Quite!

We’ve got one hell of an empire though.

December 11, 2013 at 1:05 p.m.
prairie_dog said...

Clay. Sad to tell you this, but there's no such thing as Santa Claus. Somebody has to pay for all that stuff.

December 11, 2013 at 1:34 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^ libs believe the universe will provide.

December 11, 2013 at 2:50 p.m.
jesse said...

Nah P.T.! They think sometime down the road a big bird is gonna fly over and drop a 50 trillion $$$ egg on our arz ,pay off all the debt,no body has to work no mo and everybody gets to party till they puke!!

December 11, 2013 at 3:20 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

If republicans are the "debt-eliminators" how come they launch an all-out offensive when someone mentions cutting what contributes to a large portion of the debt? When we decided to wage two unfunded wars, I can't recall a lawmaker or conservative pundit screaming about the US debt? (Maybe Ron Paul did?)

(And before any clown wastes his breath proclaiming I am against the military or the US, I served in the USN for four years and the USNR for two years.)

December 11, 2013 at 5:16 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Gassy is a traitorous peacenik.

December 11, 2013 at 5:24 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

jK, Gassy.

December 11, 2013 at 5:25 p.m.
fairmon said...

Be careful what you wish for. Government intervention has already brought havoc to health care with Medicare, Medicaid, prescription insurance and their mandates in various other interventions to accommodate their favorites.

The government role should be limited to regulations that assure safety, quality and transparent competition without collusion or price fixing among providers. Every provider should be required to publish their prices and charge anyone obtaining that service the same amount. No negotiated PPO, HMO, Medicare dictated rates. It is not as complicated as most people think if there was not so much effort to pick winners and losers.

Single payer suggest that revenue is equal to claims which is very misleading.

December 11, 2013 at 5:29 p.m.
gypsylady said...

Prairie, I'll type slowly and carefully so please read carelly. We, are, already, paying, for, all, that, stuff.

December 11, 2013 at 5:35 p.m.
Maximus said...

Alprova, check this out, guess how many dialysis units, which you might need 3 times a week someday, are in the United States as compared to both Canada and France combined?

December 11, 2013 at 5:49 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Did I just read what I thought I read?

Maximus, “After that experience you will never WANT to be sick again.”

WTF"

Yeah, after you get hosed by the funeral home, you'll never want to die again.

December 11, 2013 at 6:43 p.m.
tifosi said...

Guess how many Maximus bigots are in the United States compared to both Canada and France combined?

Speaking of cowards... Maximus probably has his driveway lined with trees.

December 11, 2013 at 7:13 p.m.
yddem said...

Maximouth said

You cannot compare Canada's healthcare system to that of the U.S. Canada like France is statistically irrelevant in the U.S. healthcare debate.

Maximouth also said

. . . . guess how many dialysis units, which you might need 3 times a week someday, are in the United States as compared to both Canada and France combined?

Can you guess who appears to be as logical as a rock?

December 11, 2013 at 8:35 p.m.
Maximus said...

Yddem....schooling you libtards is getting boring...the dialysis unit question was again to illustrate that the United States of America has the greatest for profit healthcare system in the world. The U.S. has overwhelmingly more life saving dialysis units than either France or Canada. U.S. dialysis is dominated by two publicly traded for profit companies, DaVita and Fresenius. Full disclosure, I own Fresenius stock. :)$

December 11, 2013 at 9:49 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Wonder if the Cubans are pissed that Raul shook hands with a dictator?

December 11, 2013 at 10:09 p.m.
yddem said...

Nice try, mouth, proof that you are the rock.

BTW, claiming ownership in Fresenius discloses your lack of financial savvy. The stock was up 1.83% in 2012 and 2.63% YTD versus 15.82% and 28.93%, respectively, for the Vanguard 500 Index mutual fund. So, if you really do own any stock in that dog, you did not earn money that you would have earned by simply investing in an index fund! WTG!

December 11, 2013 at 10:33 p.m.
Maximus said...

Yddem the diabetes epidemic in the U.S. caused primarily by the inability of food stamp loving Democrats to push themselves away from the table will make the dialysis stocks good investments for the long term although with the death panels of Obamacare dialysis may be rationed sending many to a premature death so I will have to monitor the situation closely. Dialysis is paid for by Medicare as part of legislation passed by the evil Republican Nixon administration. He may have been tricky but he did get things done. Dialysis preserves and saves thousands of U.S. lives a year.

December 11, 2013 at 11:11 p.m.
Maximus said...

Oh and I have mutual funds too. And I buy my gold at Goldline. What's in your safe?

December 11, 2013 at 11:13 p.m.
yddem said...

Aren't you proud, mouth, of your commitment to healthcare.

To put it in perspective, mouth, if you had invested your life savings of $100 (benefit of doubt) in Fresenius in January, 2012, it would be worth (including small dividends, if re-invested) less than $110. The same investment in the index fund would be worth (excluding dividends but subtracting the fund's small expense) more than $145.

So much for "monitoring the situation closely."

You are granite.

And Medicare was signed into law in 1965 by LBJ.

December 11, 2013 at 11:19 p.m.
fairmon said...

gypsylady said...

Maxifraud, sweetie pie, if you knew business half as well as you pretend, you would know that supply and demand doesn't always determine price. Drugs are also cheaper in Canada, except maybe the kind that that staunch conservative Rob Ford rams up his nose.

I know you didn't address this to me but I have to point out how wrong you are. Supply and demand always determine price unless there is government interference. Canada does not provide patent protection like the U.S. and they allow dispensing generic drugs produced in India, China and other less than reputable locations. Patent protection enables those spending billions on R&R to recover their development cost while the patent is in effect therefore encouraging more R&R. Supply and demand would work in healthcare with the government regulating to assure safety and quality while assuring a level playing field for competition by requiring providers to publish their rates and charging every patient the same rate. The same principles apply to insurance without limiting where and from whom a policy can be purchased.

Do you know one area where supply and demand is allowed to work? The government at one time made sure there was adequate and fair competition by requiring a monopoly to share their proprietary processes and develop competition but the prevalent practice now is to patronize favorites and pick winners and losers. Essential monopolies like utilities are supposedly regulated but has become lax with their political contacts through their lobbyist.

The tax codes are used to interfere with true supply and demand as well. Supply and demand, capitalism, no longer exist due to government manipulation and attempting to manage input instead of output.

December 11, 2013 at 11:58 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

Sir, this "current for profit, free market based health care system" has me approximately $150,000 in debt to medical providers.

The current healthcare market is not a free market system and is distorted by government interference. If you are in debt then you are subjected to distorted and inflated rates due to Medicare, PPO and HMO mandated and negotiated rates. I suspect you will qualify for disability and have Medicare retroactively if not Medicaid but if neither is in the picture the question is can you pay the debt and if not who do you think should pay?

The main thing is the technology and ability to save your life was there and for that I am thankful and glad you were able to utilize it. I miss your post on various issues although I often consider them as distorted as the healthcare system the government has us living with.

December 12, 2013 at 12:17 a.m.
gypsylady said...

Fairmon I'm scratching my head because you just listed some, but not all, of why supply and demand, in reality, do not always determine price. Also you need to check out where prescription meds are made. Methinks you don't use them or you haven't checked the labels.

December 12, 2013 at 12:24 a.m.
fairmon said...

gypsylady said...

Fairmon I'm scratching my head because you just listed some, but not all, of why supply and demand, in reality, do not always determine price. Also you need to check out where prescription meds are made. Methinks you don't use them or you haven't checked the labels.

I did not list all the reasons that interfere with the law of supply and demand but without the external interference which government insist on it will always work.

I do take a prescription and contacted a Canadian mail order pharmacy and learned the source and why they were cheaper. I check the labels and some U.S. firms dispense some drugs imported from India which I did not and will not take.

Again I ask; do you know one instance where supply and demand with valid competition is truly allowed to work but does not?

December 12, 2013 at 3:51 a.m.
alprova said...

Maximus wrote: "Alprova your gangrene has spread to your brain. France leads the world in nothing except wine and shade trees along the streets of Paris for the German Army....an old WWII joke."

Oh really? How many times does the following link need to be posted before you take notice of it?

December 12, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.
gypsylady said...

Fairmon, if your life depended on those drugs and the sole provider manufactures in India, which is sometimes the case, you wouldn't have a choice. I cannot give you an example of where it hasn't workedbecause in theory it works but in practice there is no such animal.

December 12, 2013 at 10:51 a.m.
gypsylady said...

Fairmon, if your life depended on those drugs and the sole provider manufactures in India, which is sometimes the case, you wouldn't have a choice. I cannot give you an example of where it hasn't workedbecause in theory it works but in practice there is no such animal. Instead, why don't you give me an example of a widget that bears a price that is solely determined by demand?

December 12, 2013 at 10:54 a.m.
Maximus said...

Alprova....first, I guess you are claiming to be a victim now because you have high medical bills. I guess the magical bill genie is now supposed to appear and pay your bills! Wow, pay your damn bills and quit your whining. You can do a lot of jobs from home and maybe your wife could get a second job. Buck up cowboy and take care of your obligations. As for the World Health Organization.....a socialist very bogus organization very much like the joke in N.Y.....The United Nations....a complete waste of money.

Now gypsy.....yea right....taking financial advice from a gypsy is like trusting Barry The Welfare Pimp with our healthcare system. Lol! And duh....Medicare was brought in with the Democrat Prez that lost the Vietnam War LBJ's so called Great Society but his Medicare plan did not pay for dialysis until Nixon got that done later. Back in LBJ's day most patients with end stage renal disease either got a transplant or died since dialysis was not widely available. As for drugs if you can get your drugs cheaper in another country that has a different pricing and regulatory system go ahead it's a free country at least for now but be careful they just might be sugar pills or worse. Another economic rule......let the buyer beware.

December 12, 2013 at 10:59 a.m.
alprova said...

Maximus wrote: "Alprova, check this out, guess how many dialysis units, which you might need 3 times a week someday, are in the United States as compared to both Canada and France combined?"

Weren't you just arguing the fact that both nations have a fraction of the number of people that the United States has?

France is rated #1, Canada is rated #30, and the United States is rated #37. Those ratings encompass many factors that are a part of those ratings. No nation spends more, per capita, than the United States for health care, yet we are #38 on that list.

Argue with the World Health Organization. You're going to be just as convincing as you are to argue with anyone in this forum.

December 12, 2013 at 10:59 a.m.
alprova said...

Maximus wrote: "Alprova....first, I guess you are claiming to be a victim now because you have high medical bills."

A victim? No.

"I guess the magical bill genie is now supposed to appear and pay your bills! Wow, pay your damn bills and quit your whining."

Well Sir, If I had your imaginary bank account, that would be no problem. As it is, I am a bit wiped out at the moment and have all I can handle at the moment.

"You can do a lot of jobs from home and maybe your wife could get a second job. Buck up cowboy and take care of your obligations."

Better yet, why don't you send me a check, since you claim that you spend more than that on a "night on the town?" But that doesn't fit your version of Christianity, does it?

If I live so long, I'll tackle my debt, just as I have in the past.

You rembmer one thing. I didn't ask for my problems, but I am a winner who triumphs over them each and every time. This one will be no different.

December 12, 2013 at 11:20 a.m.
Maximus said...

Sorry Alprova but if you were a citizen of France with your health issues you would be dead. By the way, what is your GFR? You might be better off financially if you go ahead and start home dialysis. The World Heath Organization stats are skewed and not statistically y valid due to many factors including demographics, population, number of providers, and access to care. There is absolutely no possible way the healthcare systems of France or Canada could even be compared with the United States. Additionally the vast majority of innovation, I.e. new drugs, new med devices, etc., come from the U.S. and the stupid world health organization makes no comment. An example, thousands of Canadians cross the border into the United States each month to pay cash for heart by passes, cancer treatment, knee replacements, etc. because due to their age and status regarding mortality rate based criteria where younger patients got the treatments first, the U.S. is the only place where they can get care instead of a long painful often life threatening wait. Regarding socialized medicine that is supposedly superior, be careful what you want or you just might get the death panel. If you are over 70, a smoker, and you are obese (body mass index is over the required line) you will either have to wait and use home dialysis or not be granted dialysis at all if you are French or Canadian. And by the way,if you an illegal in either France or Canada and go the the ER for care you will be turned away. Neither country cares for illegals like we dointhe U.S. Both systems are inhumane run by the numbers and most docs in those countries would like to be practicing in the U.S.

December 12, 2013 at 11:36 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

As for drugs if you can get your drugs cheaper in another country that has a different pricing and regulatory system go ahead it's a free country at least for now but be careful they just might be sugar pills or worse. Another economic rule......let the buyer beware.

Gasp! Is this an argument for....the FDA? Government regulation to insure safety and quality?

December 12, 2013 at 11:53 a.m.
Maximus said...

Oh and isn't it funny how bogus global warming Inconveinient Truth PowerPoint presenter and multi millionaire limo liberal Al Gore disappears this time of year. I read recently that this year a U.S. satellite recorded the coldest temperature ever on Antarctica......-145 degrees. Brrrrrrrrr. Al is probably somewhere sexually harassing a massage therapist. And Tipper is somewhere single and drunk! Lol!

December 12, 2013 at 11:54 a.m.
Maximus said...

Ike here we go the ole you Republicans don't like guvment and they want ZERO regulation and want to take away your Social Security and Medicare.....Bla....Bla. Ike, really? Come on you are smarter than that. Well....maybe you're not.

Typical boring programmed Democrat messaging. Sad really.

December 12, 2013 at 11:57 a.m.
Maximus said...

Good for you Al..you can do it. If it is to be it is up to me. Good mojo motto. Hope it helps. Check out that home hemo. At least you are on the top side of the grass!

December 12, 2013 at 12:01 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Advice from a caregiver to a dialysis patient, the thrice weekly visits to a Center is far more healthful than home do it yourself. Excellent monitoring of vitals at the Centers. FWIW.

December 12, 2013 at 12:16 p.m.
soakya said...

Sir, this "current for profit, free market based health care system" has me approximately $150,000 in debt to medical providers.- Alprova

Where are all the loving, kind-hearted, it takes a village liberals to help you with your medical bills.

December 12, 2013 at 12:53 p.m.
gypsylady said...

Soakya, as usual, sound bite snark to address a vast problem. Maybe the radicalized right should get together and pony up to pay for the war in Iraq. I was against that war, and yet "We The People" are being forced to pay for it. At the end of a government gun as you guys are so fond of saying, over and over and over again. Come on Patriots, show me the money.

December 12, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

I'm still waiting on a response to the post I made yesterday at around 500 pm:

"If republicans are the "debt-eliminators" how come they launch an all-out offensive when someone mentions cutting what contributes to a large portion of the debt? When we decided to wage two unfunded wars, I can't recall a lawmaker or conservative pundit screaming about the US debt? (Maybe Ron Paul did?)"

December 12, 2013 at 2:49 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

The contradictions of Maximus:

At 1108 am, yesterday: "Usual crap in the healthcare debate trying to compare the healthcare system in a country like France with a population of a little over 65 million very snobbish and weak mostly white people with that of the U.S. over 300 million very diverse people"

And then at 1115 am, yesterday: "Canada.....has about the population of California."

At 549 pm, yesterday: "Alprova, check this out, guess how many dialysis units, which you might need 3 times a week someday, are in the United States as compared to both Canada and France combined?"

December 12, 2013 at 2:59 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Oh and isn't it funny how bogus global warming Inconvenient Truth PowerPoint presenter and multi millionaire limo liberal Al Gore disappears this time of year. I read recently that this year a U.S. satellite recorded the coldest temperature ever on Antarctica......-145 degrees. Brrrrrrrrr"

It amazes me how climate change deniers keep making fools of themselves by showing their complete ignorance of the realities of climate change. Random, isolated examples of extreme cold or heat or rain or snow in any one geographical area have nothing to do with it. They think that because it is colder one year in Antarctica or anywhere else for that matter where it is normally cold anyway, then that is proof that the earth is not getting any warmer. But the way it is manifesting itself is by erratic, unpredictable fluctuations in climate all over the globe, in ways that have little or nothing to do with cold temps on any given day or in any particular season in any given locale. Human-caused climate change is causing the EARTH itself to get warmer but that doesn't necessarily mean that the WEATHER will correspondingly get warmer, only that wild fluctuations in temperatures and weather conditions will occur. Evidence of anthropogenic global warming is so obvious and so increasingly abundant that only a complete fool keeps denying it and making the kind of nonsensical argument that little Maxie just made.

December 12, 2013 at 3:52 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Riveting, Roo. Riveting.

December 12, 2013 at 3:57 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Thanks, PT. Sorry I can't say the same about your trite, redundant drivel.

December 12, 2013 at 4 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

As for Max's defense of America's health care system as being the best in the world based on the achievements of our medical research, he is yet again advertising for all to see just how utterly out of touch he is, living in his insular bubble that shields him from the reality of what millions of Americans have to contend with. No matter how brilliant and wondrous our achievements in medical technology might be, there is nothing worth boasting about when those technologies are reserved for only those who can afford them or are fortunate enough to work for one of the few companies that still provides affordable group insurance plans. When a nation has over 45 million of its people completely uninsured because they cannot afford the exorbitant cost or because they have pre-existing conditions that (prior to Obamacare) kept them from having access to health insurance, then something is terribly wrong with the way our free market system goes about providing health insurance, which should not be a privilege for the rich but a right for everybody.

Even with a single-payer or Medicare-for-all system we could still have superior achievements in medical technology. Most funding for R&D, especially in the early stages, comes from government grants anyway. Most private companies do not heavily invest in research until the later stages, when they know they have a marketable product. Without government funding somewhere along the way, most of the medical technologies that have come about would never have seen the light of day.

Obamacare is admittedly a flawed and inadequate system but at least it attempts to right a glaring wrong. Still nobody on the right even acknowledges that we have a problem that needs fixing. All they want to do is tear down Obamacare without even giving it a chance to let it succeed or fail on its own merits. They just want to go back to the same ol' same ol', smug in their comfort zone of arrogance and indifference.

December 12, 2013 at 4:09 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Your welcome Roo. Your default post du jour is noted. BTW, only a fool would continue to defend Obamacare. You should show some of that obligatory liberal compassion to the millions that will lose their insurance.

December 12, 2013 at 4:24 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Hey Roo, this is for your viewing pleasure.

https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/411228597395791872/photo/1

December 12, 2013 at 4:26 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

limric said...

Single payer - Medicare for all? Without using hyperbole, why isn't it a viable alternative?

It’s probably a viable alternative if costs and operational efficiency/competence are not primary concerns. It seems there was a lot of talk about the fact the U.S. spends 17% of it’s GDP on healthcare. That was supposedly the primary need to address healthcare reform but the ACA or Medicare For All will not accomplish that.

By Robert A. Book, Ph.D.

Many advocates of a public health plan--either a "single-payer" plan or a "public option"--claim that a public health plan will save money compared to private health insurance because "everyone knows" that the largest government health program, Medicare, has lower administrative costs than private insurance. Some even claim that switching every private insured American to Medicare or something like it could save the nation enough money to cover all currently uninsured Americans.

Advocates of a public plan assert that Medicare has administrative costs of 3 percent (or 6 to 8 percent if support from other government agencies is included), compared to 14 to 22 percent for private employer-sponsored health insurance (depending on which study is cited), or even more for individually purchased insurance. They attribute the difference to superior efficiency of government, private insurance companies' expenditures on marketing, efforts to deny claims, unrestrained pursuit of profit, and high executive salaries.

However, on a per-person basis Medicare's administrative costs are actually higher than those of private insurance--this despite the fact that private insurance companies do incur several categories of costs that do not apply to Medicare. If recent cost history is any guide, switching the more than 200 million Americans with private insurance to a public plan will not save money but will actually increase health care administrative costs by several billion dollars.

In 2005, Medicare's administrative costs were $509 per primary beneficiary, compared to private-sector administrative costs of $453. In the years from 2000 to 2005, Medicare's administrative costs per beneficiary were consistently higher than that for private insurance, ranging from 5 to 48 percent higher, depending on the year.

December 12, 2013 at 4:32 p.m.
fairmon said...

gypsylady said...

Fairmon, if your life depended on those drugs and the sole provider manufactures in India, which is sometimes the case, you wouldn't have a choice. I cannot give you an example of where it hasn't workedbecause in theory it works but in practice there is no such animal. Instead, why don't you give me an example of a widget that bears a price that is solely determined by demand?

There is no prescription drug where India or China is the only source. You can't identify any product or service where real supply and demand doesn't work. One example may an active farmers market where local truck farmers take their produce. In most cases governments prevent true capitalism and I don't know of any goods or services where supply and demand is not adversely impacted by a local, state or federal government.

December 12, 2013 at 4:47 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova...

Is your recovery progressing as it should? I wish you the best and a pain free active life. I still don't agree with your support for government mandated welfare and controlling things beyond their ability but I do like to read your opinions although I disagree and question them often. The disagreement is not personal and I try to avoid any comment on the person although at times with some it is tempting.

December 12, 2013 at 5:02 p.m.
tifosi said...

Maxi-coward has to be one of the most ignorant people to ever post on this site. With each of his posts, I can only scratch my head and wonder what rock did this Neanderthal crawl out from under.

December 12, 2013 at 5:28 p.m.
jesse said...

Max is on here for one reason only,to yank everybody chain!!He feeds on all the crap coming back his way and as long as he gets it he's gonna keep it up!The word "TROLL " gets a lot of mileage on here but THAT'S ALL max is doing! He's prob.a delivery boy for TFP ,drives a 1974 dodge dart and lives on beeny weeney's and vienna saus w/a side of soda crackers!! His computer prob.came from a rent to own store!!

December 12, 2013 at 5:40 p.m.
gypsylady said...

Fairmon, with all due respect, my original point may have been clumsily expressed but where I was going is as follows: We have drugs manufactured overseas. I simply want to know why you and are not supposed to buy them from overseas sources. You do not always have the choice you think you have as to where these drugs come from. A few years back heparin, made in China, was given to patients and killed around 80 I believe. When you are in a hospital and you are given a drug like that you may or may not be in the position to find out where it was made before it was given to you. Check your aspirin bottle. I just did. I'd read that 80% is made in China. The label says simply "distributed by so and so." I don't know for sure where it was manufactured. If you buy a prescription in a bottle you can find out if Abbott Labs manufactured it, but I don't think you can find out where it was made.

Your example of the truck farmer works as far as supply and demand goes.

December 12, 2013 at 6:22 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Regarding Jt's spiel about Medicare administrative costs: First off, Robert Book writes for the Heritage Foundation, that conservative "think tank" that is less a think tank than a propaganda machine on par with Faux News. If the administrative costs per Medicare beneficiary are as high as Book claims, there is only one reason for that: Medicare patients are much older and in need of more services, so the comparison is not apples to apples. If you want a true comparison of administrative costs per beneficiary, compare public Medicare plans to privately run Medicare Advantage. The CBO reported that administrative costs of public Medicare plans run at approximately 2% while those of privately run Medicare Advantage run at around 11%. If private (non-Medicare) insurers had the number of elderly people on its rolls that Medicare has, their administrative costs would rise even higher than they already are, while Medicare's, if it had younger and more healthy people to balance the costs out, would drop considerably, on a per-person basis, making the end result of Medicare's administrative costs much lower in all aspects than private insurance companies.

Once again, the RWNJs are doing what they do best: spreading lies based on incomplete,, out-of-context, and skewed data.

December 12, 2013 at 6:51 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

The only reason Medicare is in trouble today is not because it's a faulty system. It is in trouble because our for-profit health care system is flawed and the out-of-control costs are naturally affecting Medicare. Our nation's health care should not be in the hands of private companies whose bottom line is increasing its profits and pleasing its shareholders. Health, education, and our penal system have no business whatsoever being in the profit-driven private sector.

December 12, 2013 at 7:04 p.m.
tifosi said...

Jesse - As different as we may be, you are someone that has credibility and morals.

December 12, 2013 at 7:32 p.m.
volsam said...

Rickaroo, the reason Medicare is in trouble ,my friend, is because the Federal Government is running it. They dictate the payment and delivery system with payments to doctors and how much they are allowed to charge. The doctors have to charge insurance more to make up for heir losses. I think what is sucking the money out of the system is the explosion of prescription medication costs. Drug company's push their products to doctors and doctors sell their product. My father is 85 years old and takes about 10 different medications a day. Medicare pays for most of that cost. The prices they charge are astronomical. You must be one of those people who think Bigger Government is the answer to all of the problems that us stupid subjects of the Harvard educated ruling elite can't figure out on our own. If Government is the answer to our problems then we have lost the republic. Ben Franklin warned us of this very scenario.

December 12, 2013 at 8 p.m.
tifosi said...

Hallelujah!!! Boehner has come to his senses and pushed the Tea Partiers out into the gutter where they belong. Mark West and the rest of your likes are history! Maybe our government will begin doing their job!

WASHINGTON — Battle-fatigued and suddenly bipartisan, the House voted Thursday night to ease across-the-board federal spending cuts and prevent future government shutdowns, acting after Speaker John Boehner unleashed a stinging attack on tea party-aligned conservative groups campaigning for the measure's defeat.

"I think they're misleading their followers," the Republican speaker said of the groups, whom he pointedly also blamed for last fall's politically damaging partial government shutdown. "I think they're pushing our members in places where they don't want to be. And frankly, I just think that they've lost all credibility" by opposing legislation before the details are known."

December 12, 2013 at 8:15 p.m.
volsam said...

Single payer system? free medical care for all, free cell phones for all, free food stamps for all, free daycare for all, maybe even free unicorns for all. Sounds like utopia doesn't it. Then everybody can make the same wages. Equality for all. Everybody can just send all their money to nanny and they will take care of all our problems. They called that communism in the past. Now they call it progressivism.

December 12, 2013 at 8:20 p.m.
volsam said...

tifosi, Don't get to excited Boehner is a RINO any way. A lame duck speaker at best. Nobody listens to his drivel.

December 12, 2013 at 8:24 p.m.
jesse said...

Under a capitalistic system some folks have a yacht and some folks have a life jacket!

Under a communist system everybody has an oar!(except the pols. they all got yachts too,in both systems!)

December 12, 2013 at 8:29 p.m.
volsam said...

tifosi, As much as you may not like it there's a revolution coming and you have Obama to thank for that. The horrors of the ACA were put off 4 years to protect Obama for reelection. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. You are big on polls so you MUST be a little worried about Obama's numbers dropping to Bush numbers. As soon as Obama finishes destroying our entire system, the Conservatives WILL rise from the ashes and save the republic again.

December 12, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

^Name a "conservative" that ever "saved the republic" in the US's history.

December 12, 2013 at 9:30 p.m.
alprova said...

maximus wrote: "Sorry Alprova but if you were a citizen of France with your health issues you would be dead."

You have absolutely no idea what you are typing about.

"By the way, what is your GFR?"

GFR? What the heck is that?

"You might be better off financially if you go ahead and start home dialysis."

So far, my kidneys have stabilized at around 25% and they have been there a year.

"The World Heath Organization stats are skewed and not statistically y valid due to many factors including demographics, population, number of providers, and access to care."

Again, you have no idea what you are typing about.

Responsiveness, Fairness of financial contribution, Overall Level of Health, Distribution of Health in the Population, Distribution of Financing are the main criteria used to measure the rankings of all the nations measured.

"There is absolutely no possible way the healthcare systems of France or Canada could even be compared with the United States."

That's your tale. The fact is that they are comparable and we are way down the list in comparison, and that has been noted for 13 years.

"Additionally the vast majority of innovation, I.e. new drugs, new med devices, etc., come from the U.S. and the stupid world health organization makes no comment."

France is very much leading the world in innovation and ledical research.

"An example, thousands of Canadians cross the border into the United States each month to pay cash for heart by passes, cancer treatment, knee replacements, etc. because due to their age and status regarding mortality rate based criteria where younger patients got the treatments first, the U.S. is the only place where they can get care instead of a long painful often life threatening wait."

Hyperbole and hogwash. It happens from time to time, but only among the affluent.

"Regarding socialized medicine that is supposedly superior, be careful what you want or you just might get the death panel."

But of course, Sarah Palin.

"If you are over 70, a smoker, and you are obese (body mass index is over the required line) you will either have to wait and use home dialysis or not be granted dialysis at all if you are French or Canadian."

I'm going to challenge you to back that up with proof, and not some concocted story that comes from a conservative website. I want to see language in one or both country's medical coverage that proves what you claim.

"And by the way,if you an illegal in either France or Canada and go the the ER for care you will be turned away."

A different subject for a different day.

December 12, 2013 at 9:40 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Advice from a caregiver to a dialysis patient, the thrice weekly visits to a Center is far more healthful than home do it yourself. Excellent monitoring of vitals at the Centers. FWIW."

Thank you for that. I have come to agree with that as well, although I had arranged for home dialysis when planning it a few months back. I have since come to do a 180 degree turn on that decision after considering the deadly risks and I will be going the clinical route.

Just further proof that taking anything maximus writes serious, is a total waste of time.

December 12, 2013 at 9:45 p.m.
alprova said...

fairmon wrote: "Is your recovery progressing as it should?"

I'm doing very well for a man missing one leg. My surgeon and my primary care physician are both very pleased with my progress. Oh...and I've dropped another 20 pounds. Am cutting back on insulin and blood pressure meds.

"I wish you the best and a pain free active life."

It's been an interesting couple of weeks since the amputation. Am learning more each day how to care for myself. Hoping to be ableto return to my own home in time. I have way too many steps to climb, but a ramp is going to be built in the coming weeks.

Bought an electric wheel chair today. Ramp going up at the office in the coming days. Hope to return to running the place ASAP.

"I still don't agree with your support for government mandated welfare and controlling things beyond their ability but I do like to read your opinions although I disagree and question them often."

I know. At least you and I disagree respectfully, for the most part. I'm still me. Just part of me is missing.

"The disagreement is not personal and I try to avoid any comment on the person although at times with some it is tempting."

And I for one appreciate you not strangling me over the net.

December 12, 2013 at 9:57 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo…get that fistula installed and let it mature.

December 12, 2013 at 10:43 p.m.
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